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EPISODE 39: And the Road to Jonestown Begins JIM JONES PART 2
Before Jonestown became synonymous with mass tragedy, Jim Jones established himself as a champion for racial equality in 1950s Indianapolis. His People's Temple created nursing homes for neglected elderly Black residents, operated a Free Cafe feeding thousands weekly, and successfully integrated hospitals and businesses in a deeply segregated city. These weren't empty gestures – historical records confirm Jones genuinely improved racial conditions in Indianapolis while building a devoted following.
Join us as we explore how legitimate social activism transformed into destructive cult dynamics – a cautionary tale about charismatic authority and institutional abuse that feels eerily relevant today. Listen now to understand the warning signs that preceded one of history's most devastating cult tragedies.
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Hey, Jesse, Hello.
Speaker 2:Lindsay.
Speaker 1:And Hello Cindy.
Speaker 2:Woo Woo.
Speaker 1:Woo Bestie has returned for a sit-in recording.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Of Jim Jones, part Deux.
Speaker 2:So we didn't run her away.
Speaker 1:We didn't.
Speaker 2:Holy shit, If Lindsay has not run me away yet she will never.
Speaker 1:No, it's been 19, almost 20 years.
Speaker 2:It's been 20 years.
Speaker 1:Or I should have said I haven't chased you away. We're equally toxic. Take me away.
Speaker 2:So we're doing some cool-ass shit. Dude, this is like a whole huckle-buck of part of my root-a-marod Of fuckery.
Speaker 1:First of all, what are you drinking today?
Speaker 2:Oh me, yeah, Dude, like okay, I got Crown Mm-hmm Crown, apple Mm-hmm Cosmic fucking vibe on this over here Celsius.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm geeking. Dude, I'm geeking, I feel you. So I mixed Vista Bay pineapple with some of Cindy's pineapple rum and some strawberry pineapple.
Speaker 2:Cindy is drinking.
Speaker 1:I am Energy. What's Cindy?
Speaker 2:drinking Malibu and Sprite. Malibu and Sprite With a little bit of this-boo-ka-choo. Like I feel like we should do this shit in autotune, Like the whole time. We should do the sing-song autotune. Jim Jones part fucking two Dude, I'm down, Dude, we should. How?
Speaker 1:do I sound in my autotune yet? Well, first, what. Go ahead and roll our intro.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, we're going to party here. Happy Friday everybody, because it's going down. Going down, gen Z Chestertonvilleville. Yeah, oh, we're bumping. Let me crank that down just a little bit. Lindsay, I feel like we blowed up some stereo, some speakers. Oh, what are you doing when this song is going on? I swear to God, I explained my version last weekend. What are y'all thinking, dude? What kind of party are you at when this song's bumping? Tell me.
Speaker 1:It's kind of a disco, like you said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a disco.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a good disco. It is yeah. Yeah, it's a good disco. It is yeah, I love it. Yes, this song is in my DNA Dude, I love it. What?
Speaker 1:No, I'm just saying dude, I'm allowed to have, like it's in your DNA, at 40. How old are you? 43? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've adapted, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:It's a good. It's a good little intro.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like seeing how you're fixing to hit me was something that I have to come up with, which I actually already put it on here.
Speaker 1:I've seen that. What made you feel old this week?
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, Lindsay. So I wrote down this time generations.
Speaker 1:I see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you think about generations and how they live their life and how old we are, when we look at the different generational breaks and everything, you're just like dude. They're so different, oh yeah, and some of them are in a cool way, so that's a good thing. But when you look back, I start I'm starting to feel like an old boomer or some shit, sitting back and watching all these kids grow up and that kind of made me feel old. Yeah, but some of them actually act old yeah. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So that was my thing. It was just like I'm sitting back and I'm watching all these kids grow up and there's like two, three now generations above us. So I think we're all pretty much millennials here. Yeah, Pretty much.
Speaker 1:Well, she's Gen X. Oh, we're all pretty much millennials here, yeah. Pretty much. Well, she's Gen X.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, well, we're elder millennials, yeah, we're elder millennials. When you say elder millennials, you're allowed to go like kind of hold your pinky out a little bit.
Speaker 1:Do we have a monocle?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because every elder millennial feels like they're not quite Gen X but they're not millennial, right. So but like, but like, so that I guess would be my what makes me feel old with you two, just now we're millennials and you're Gen X bitch.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, so she is a baby Gen X and we are elder millennials, so generations, just like I was talking about, like okay, how kids?
Speaker 2:nowadays they'll say like 1,559, you know, let's say 1,559, you know 1,559, whatever they sound, every part of just the numbers. I'm like what? And it was true because I'm hearing them on the phone, because part of my job is like numbers and stuff, and so it's just like, why don't you just say 1500 or 15,000, you know whatever? So I'm just like, dude, just say the quicker part of it, you don't have to do this whole blocks of numbers thing. I guess maybe that's a generational thing for sure, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that makes me feel old. We millennial Gen X, we say 1500, 1600, 1629.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Gen Z and younger will say 1,629. And I'm like, why did you just waste all those words?
Speaker 2:And, by the way, like, when you get into like way bigger numbers, it's going to be even like stupider. So, like kids that are going to be doing bigger numbers, it's going to be way crazier. I mean, what the fuck do you do if you're like a One billion Trillion. Gazillion Fillion Blah, blah, blah, shabba-do-ba-do, shabba-do-ba-do yes.
Speaker 1:We're referencing Dr Evil there.
Speaker 2:Dr Evil.
Speaker 1:So, if you listeners are new here, what we do is we have a couple drinks and we talk about true crime. Well, I talk about true crime to Jesse, but Cindy's here, so I'm talking about true crime with both of you guys tonight. Both are very familiar with this case particularly, but they don't know some of the the juice, the juice, the salad. The crazy details. The juice salad. The juice, the salad. The crazy details, the juice salad, the juice, ew, I don't like the sound of that Juice salad.
Speaker 2:Yummy, yummy.
Speaker 1:So yeah, but then at the end of the episode Jesse will plug a band that he has sought out and got permission to play from the Artists, and we usually dig them mucho.
Speaker 2:Last weekend was fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm still on that craze.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God Ignocent, and they're coming to Florida.
Speaker 1:We're hoping that that's how you pronounce it, but we're not 100% sure.
Speaker 2:We love you guys, though I've listened to you guys all day today. They're coming to Florida, so check them out.
Speaker 1:Three different spots in Florida, so check them out.
Speaker 2:They're going to be in three different spots in Florida, so come and check them out. Follow Ignocent. They're amazing. And a little update on somebody who lives in Australia.
Speaker 1:Yes, jenny Haynes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, she loves the package. We sent her that we covered not too long ago. Yes, we sent her some merch. She reached out to us and said our podcast was lovely yeah.
Speaker 2:It was my first package I ever sent to Australia. It was so cool. We sent her some merch and she's like thank you so much. I was like thank you.
Speaker 1:You're lovely, I know, yeah, that's pretty cool. I know. I'm too nervous oh my god, did I do a good job?
Speaker 2:I don't know so if you're in Florida area, do check out Ignocent, and check out the other pods too. The.
Speaker 1:Monster who Made Me was the song that we featured last week, but they also do a cover of Radio Gaga by Queen, and I was geeking, it made my day. It made my day. It was like.
Speaker 2:Trolstice all over again.
Speaker 1:Yes, trolstice, all over again, yes, trolstice.
Speaker 2:She was geeking. She was geeking. I love it.
Speaker 1:All right so.
Speaker 2:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1:We've covered what made us feel old right, or was that on the blip recording?
Speaker 2:No, we covered it. We were having some technical difficulties at first, but we're good.
Speaker 1:Okay so, but we're good. Okay so, last week we talked about Jim Jones' upbringing, his marriage to Marceline and his start of community unity, and then he went on to establish the People's Temple. And don't forget Jimbo. Oh yes, jim Jones was Jimbo, jimbo. It was the circle, circle of life, circle of life, circle of life.
Speaker 1:and then, you know, graffiti comes out with the thing hits him with a stick now Jim Jones was compassionate about making the black community better and fighting for their rights of equality. Now, jim, he really didn't like to go to meetings where he wasn't the main attraction, because you know, he's Jim, he's like it's all about me. So he sent Marceline out to take notes during city meetings and school administrative meetings. See, her father, mr Baldwin, had been a former city council member, so she was familiar with that territory. So she found the right people to talk to to make changes that they you know as a whole, as as a unity, as a temple, they wanted to make. She would share everything she learned with Jim and then moves were made. They were, they were doing shit. Now he got the credit but she didn't mind. You know, back in those days it was all about the husbands. You know, fuck women, but whatever. A lot of the People's Temple members were elderly black women who could no longer care for themselves and were put into homes, low-budget homes.
Speaker 1:So the Joneses sought out how to receive state certification to make their own home into an elder facility and they would receive grants to maintain it. And from what I heard from I'm listening to two books simultaneously. I'm listening to Road to Jonestown and Raven and both are very informational. One is more factual and one is more fun, and I will tell the tea about both on episode four.
Speaker 2:See, and that's why I like the last episode, I was halfway as Jones team team Jim. I mean, jim Jones is a humanitarian.
Speaker 1:He does wonderful things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was kind of teaming there that you cannot deny. I mean, I wasn't part of his cool-ass basketball team. I mean, I would have rode that shit. That would have been cool. I know you ain't before team, but we're fucking riding, bro. It was a baseball team. It was a baseball team. Yeah, I could have swore you said basketball last time.
Speaker 1:No, it was baseball.
Speaker 2:Oh baseball.
Speaker 1:You know what I don't remember? I would have to look at my notes.
Speaker 2:Well, if it was baseball we'd be like the Savannah Bananas up in that beach.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, with Jim Jones. Please take me to a Savannah Bananas game. Oh my.
Speaker 2:God In the name of Jesus. With all the bananas hanging out, I mean fucking great dude, fucking great.
Speaker 1:So you know, the People's Temple nursing home was legit and they would end up taking over management over several nursing homes over the next few years and this would provide jobs for several people in the congregation. You know, because he's building a congregation, he's building a community.
Speaker 2:Still on unity community over here. I'm still on team, I'm cool, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So Jim would also have 15 minute segments on a radio show every day where he would do a little preaching. He would encourage people to join his cause. He would tell people where they could donate food and clothing and other items that were needed for the community. He was helping all of our community team Jimmy.
Speaker 1:And along the way he gained an associate pastor named Archie Iams who was really impressed with what Jim Jones was doing for the black community. He was black himself and he swore I mean for years that Jim Jones had healed his child's ear problem. Now it is reported by other sources that the child's ear problem was probably like a misdiagnosed problem and that kind of went away on its own Like an ear infection or something? Yes, but according to Archie, who will be a longtime follower.
Speaker 2:Jesus Jones.
Speaker 1:Jesus Jones. Yes, jim Jones made that happen. He held his child. So, archie, would you know he would, he'll be with Jim for a very long time. So the people's temple would open a restaurant called the Free Cafe, where you, where the hungry, could come and eat, and this cafe would end up feeding about 2,800 people weekly. Whoa, like it started. That's a lot. That's a lot. So they started out with like a couple dozen, then it was a hundred, and then in the next year, everybody in the club getting tipsy a hundred were eating at the free cafe and you can also pick out some free clothing that had been donated at you know cause.
Speaker 1:Like I said, he was on the show every day 15 minutes. Hallelujah, praise Jesus. This is where you can donate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, megan, and Happy Help the cause. Yeah, right. Then a huge youth outreach was formed, including a children's choir and a dance program, because who doesn't love dance program? Like, I'm all about the dance, I'm on the dance side of TikTok.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm all about that bass.
Speaker 1:About that bass, no trouble. But seriously like if a youth program. Back in the day, when I was religious, they had a dance program. I was going to that service.
Speaker 2:And I'm over here talking about that. Boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 1:We already had our Black Eyed Peas day. Oh, okay, a long time ago. No, no, friday last week, oh, every day is. Black Ey. So city and county officials began attending the People's Temple as well. Jim Jones and the People's Temple had become very popular in Indianapolis. Like they were making headlines in the newspaper, they were doing the thing. Then Jim would meet a man that would influence him even more. Oh, and this man's name was Father Divine.
Speaker 2:Divine, divine oh.
Speaker 1:Now I eventually want to have a whole deep dive into this guy and his own cult.
Speaker 2:This drink is divine.
Speaker 1:Mine is too. It's the father of mine. So Father Divine had his own cult. It's so divine. Will you listen, sir?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to tell you about another cult that we're going to talk about later, but to summarize really quickly, father Divine said that he was God and his father has believed him. What, okay? And he legally changed his name to Jealous Divine, because God is a jealous God, you know, jealous, it says it in the Bible.
Speaker 1:And he also believed in socialism and in the beginning most he also believed in socialism and in the beginning most of his followers were black women. Now, by the time Jim met Father Divine, he was a very rich man, he had nice things and he had a harem of women that lived with him and his wife and they had a commune in Philadelphia Whoa. Maybe we can find old Divine's stomping grounds In Philly when we go to in Philadelphia. Whoa, Maybe we can find old Divine's stomping grounds.
Speaker 2:In Philly when we go to.
Speaker 1:Philly Now, when his wife passed away because, like I said, we're going to do a deep dive into this cult too later on oh, but it started like in the early 1900s. So when his wife passed away, he claimed that her spirit had jumped into a 21 year old woman. Imagine that.
Speaker 2:Well, he better get that right, he better jump on that.
Speaker 1:His wife.
Speaker 2:It's divine.
Speaker 1:His first wife was a black woman. Now her spirit jumped into this 21 year old white woman. Oh and now she was the new Mother Divine, and most of his sermons would center around reincarnation.
Speaker 2:Yes, he had it figured out Now.
Speaker 1:Jim liked Father Divine's style and would have his congregation soon after address him as father and Marceline as mother. And this will continue until it discontinues.
Speaker 2:The continuation of the discontinuation.
Speaker 1:So Jim even started dressing a little more fancy and he would wear his hair different. Fancy and he would wear his hair different. Now, prior to his, um, absolute obsession with father, divine him, you know, they, they did the whole socialist thing. They, they, they dress secondhand, they bought secondhand, everything secondhand. But then he saw this guy who was like you know been in a mansion and had some swag and he's like oh father, divine mansion, and had some swag.
Speaker 1:And he's like oh, father Divine, that's cool. Now. Jim hoped to one day acquire Father Divine's followers when he passed, even though Father Divine said that he was immortal.
Speaker 2:Oh, Is he going to turn into like a 21 year old white woman too? That'd be great Dude. If that's the case, I'm dying today now father.
Speaker 1:Divine's full name was reverend major jealous divine fuck's sake so it was self-proclaimed. It was hold on, let me where's rmj rmj divine was what his, his documents, the good reverend, the good reverend and his congregation was called the peace movement.
Speaker 1:now, father to my divine father divine had many enemies at this point because the peace movement had been around for many years and he would openly verbally, attack his enemies, creating fear in his congregation to be more loyal to him. Now, jim really didn't have any enemies at this point except for, like, the government and capitalism. So those would be his enemies that he would attack in his sermons and the black community. They were they were all too familiar with that, you know very, very oppressed.
Speaker 2:Looking for a common. This was still the 50s. They were just looking for a better way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Satan was the common enemy in all churches, but in the people's temple Satan was the government.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like Satan is just motivation toward your whole fucking drive toward controlling people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, but I'm just saying Satan's, whatever you make it, at this point we're going to use that and pass the plate, come on. But I mean, jim Jones was making many moves to improve the quality of life in this community and that was the baddest fact. He preached like a black man and he got shit done like a white man. That's, I mean, that's how he got, that's how he got, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 2:Cindy's over there.
Speaker 1:She's like crisscross applesauce.
Speaker 2:We're by the campfire, we're cooking s'mores together. She's like I'm going to be quiet over here, just like let Lindsay spill. Dude, lindsay's spilling, I'm just listening. Oh, this divine shit over here. I swear to God, lynette.
Speaker 1:Jim's mom. She moved to Indianapolis with Jim and was like, hey, my vision came true.
Speaker 2:Is he still Jimmy, right?
Speaker 1:now my boy became I mean to Lynette. He's always Jimba.
Speaker 2:Jimba forever. Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, she said, my boy is a great man. My vision came true, yeah he's a great leader. But Jim was like you know what you still got to contribute to the household. So she became a guard at a women's prison.
Speaker 2:So not leading you to the water, but maybe to the flavor aid, I mean Kool-Aid. I just have to say so back in the 50s he was doing all this help but still made his mom work. Yeah, okay, yeah, oh. She was coddling him Like he could do no wrong. Little Jimba over here can do no wrong.
Speaker 1:Mm-mm. Yeah, he's a great man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he'd steal from stores and she'd come back and pay for it and be like you're okay, baby.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, you're okay.
Speaker 2:She was proud of his audacity With a Benson and Hedges hanging out in the mouth the whole time. Ain't I'm going over here, jimbo, over here. That was really fucking. I can picture this dude.
Speaker 1:Now I mentioned in the last episode that Jim and Marceline had adopted a little girl named Agnes, but that wasn't enough. She grew to be quite the snarky and problematic little girl, and Jim wanted a happy rainbow family with racial harmony. So they wanted to adopt a black child child. But they had some issues with that. I guess it wasn't really uh, indiana really didn't wasn't cool with that.
Speaker 2:They were like no, oh, they wouldn't want to fill out that paperwork, no, so they adopted a korean boy named lou and a korean girl named stephanie, from california.
Speaker 1:And then Marceline found out that she was pregnant. He said last night he's like that motherfucker reproduced.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, he did. He's going to have some kids.
Speaker 1:So in May they're going to have kids Shit. In May 1959, Jones took the church kids to the Cincinnati Zoo and unfortunately, this is going to get really sad for a minute. Oh shit, Jones took the church kids to the Cincinnati Zoo and unfortunately, this is going to get really sad for a minute. Oh shit, there was a storm and the vehicle that Stephanie was in was struck by a drunk driver and she was killed instantly.
Speaker 2:What yes?
Speaker 1:Right off rip and Stephanie, since she was Korean, wasn't allowed to be buried next to the white folks.
Speaker 2:Well, fuck's sake, yeah, yeah I know, since she was. Korean wasn't allowed to be buried next to the white folks.
Speaker 1:Well, fuck's sake, yeah, yeah, I know that is so sad. Her body had to be prepared for burial by a black man and buried in a black cemetery, which I mean, jim really didn't you know attest to, or he didn't, what's the word?
Speaker 2:He didn't protest to it. He didn't protest to it, so, or he didn't um, what's the word? Protest to it? So I mean that's why I was like he's used to helping that community right and he's involved in that that's why I was like kind of team team jim on that, you know, because he was pushing for equality, he was pushing for all this stuff. And then let lindsey spill it.
Speaker 1:I mean because this damn so three weeks later, after stephanie passed away, uh, stephen jones was born and he they spelled it stephen with an an in honor of stephanie. So you know, stephen is usually ian, but they did and oh, okay yeah, okay. So jones found out that stephanie had a little sister named a Boki, that Marceline had seen in a vision, and adopted her right away. Now, whether this vision was true, we don't know, but they did adopt Stephanie.
Speaker 2:It was a divine intuition. Yes, well, they renamed her Suzanne, if you had a vision about this little girl named what she was named named a bogey. Yeah, I was trying to interrupt her the whole time.
Speaker 1:I'm going to punch you in the face. Well then, in 1961, they adopted a black infant, and they would name him James Warren Jones Jr.
Speaker 2:Doesn't that just paint a beautiful picture? Yeah, that's what I was fixing to say. Doesn't that paint a beautiful picture. I was letting Cindy plug in. I was like they're painting a picture over here. Oh, pretty little rainbows, pretty little trees. Yes, beautiful, little, happy little His biological son is Steven.
Speaker 1:His adopted son is Jim Jesus.
Speaker 2:But it's beautiful, it's divine.
Speaker 1:So now Jim's family is complete, he has a successful congregation, he's making moves in the black community, he's managing nursing homes, youth outreach and is still on the revival circuit. And now he needs a schedule manager. Okay, he met a woman at a revival in ohio named patty cartnell and she's gonna be till the end, okay, okay. So, uh, patty was obsessed with the apocalypse and had declared j Jones as the prophet. Not a prophet, he's the prophet.
Speaker 2:Whoa.
Speaker 1:And she, the second coming of Jesus. Yeah, so he was she. He, he was the prophet that she had been looking for All right, yeah.
Speaker 1:So he recruited her as one of his scheduling coordinators. Then she became his eyes and ears, seeking out all the information that she could find, so Jim could perform his miracles and his prophecies the eyes and ears of Jesus, yes, the eyes and ears of Jesus Jones. Okay. So now he didn't have to mingle anymore. Patty took care of that, and then he joined forces with another church called the Disciples of Christ, who also had the same ideas of socialism and racial equality. So now we got a network going here, ok. The only stipulation was that Jim had to get his college degree as a pastor. I didn't know that that was a requirement. I thought that was a thing that you could go do.
Speaker 2:Well, if you do that, it's tax-free too. Really Well, we can run that college under religion and we can write that shit off and collect it all up.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to inform you guys. I'm going to go enroll in classes on Monday, okay, fall semester. Pastor Lindsey, oh Divine, just kidding, I'd rather pastor Lindsay, oh divine divine, just kidding. I'd rather be drawn and quartered, okay, I had a dream about this one time.
Speaker 2:I had a dream about this so. I'm just trying to picture what kind of dream I had. Hang on, give me a moment. I can't tell you what kind of dream I had.
Speaker 1:Well, it was very moist, oh gosh yeah, about me being a pastor no, I had diarrhea. Keep on going, sorry what's that got to do with anything we're talking about here, sir?
Speaker 2:the dream about you becoming a divine human being.
Speaker 1:Like okay, just like, just mother divine's spirit jumped into mine and now You're not 21.
Speaker 2:Shut up.
Speaker 1:But let's do the math, okay. So this is in the 50s.
Speaker 2:Oh, calculators out, everybody, break out your calculators. Calculus Calculators eliminate us.
Speaker 1:With our powers combined, I am the new mother of mine at 42 years old.
Speaker 2:Oh man, you got to wipe after this one.
Speaker 1:I am sweaty in here, man.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it is. I know what do we do. It's moist in here.
Speaker 1:Maybe we need to turn the air back up and it'll be cold again.
Speaker 2:Can we keep saying moist.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm sweaty, so yeah, I'm moist, so then. So then Jim became director of the Indianapolis Human Relations Committee. Hell, yeah, yes. And Jim would use this position to encourage more racial equality throughout Indianapolis, such as getting white-only restaurants to also serve black patrons, and if they refused, he would form protest. But if they agreed, jim would drive up the business by bringing in Temple members, that's some good shit.
Speaker 2:That's some good shit, right.
Speaker 1:So he'll bring in Temple members during slow hours so that the regulars who will get offended won't get affected, and he's driving up the business Like just continuously. Yeah, like I said, he won't get affected and he's driving up the business like just continuously. Yeah, like I said, he had the potential to be a great dude yeah, it's set it up.
Speaker 2:You have set up something. You keep riding that wave and keep doing great, but I mean, there's some shady behind all this already still, but like oh yeah, I mean, we're already faking miracles, we're already faking, you know, faith healing divinity we're already faking.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, we're already faking. You know, faith healing Divinity. We're already faking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're shitting on a religion at the same time.
Speaker 1:Well, jim, he goes into a little breakdown. Okay, right, he gets admitted into the hospital for some stomach ulcers because he's under a lot of stress. Okay, oh God, and I mean he really is. He's got a lot under his thumb right now.
Speaker 2:Well, being a divine fucking figure, I would be under the stress of the world right now.
Speaker 1:No, honestly, he's management over all these elderly homes now.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, dude, don't sleep. He's not sleeping, no sleep.
Speaker 1:And he learned how to live with that a long time ago. But even if you're used to it, your body is going to come back on you. So he gets admitted into the hospital with some stomach ulcers and he is put on a wing for white patients, only because we're still in the 50s. Ok, now he said with bleeding ulcers that he would only stay in that hospital if there was immediate integration, immediate Should have been, I mean. And it actually happened.
Speaker 2:Good, good.
Speaker 1:Actually happened.
Speaker 2:Make it moves. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:So we're we're in six. We're in 61 right now. I'm sorry we're not in the 50. So by the end of 61, okay.
Speaker 1:Indianapolis was a lot more integrated than it had been 12 months prior, and Jim Jones was the main one responsible for this. I mean, this is legit. This is not speculation. This is 100% true. Now, being the leader that he was, he did have to have a team to help him out, but he was a control freak and still made sure that he was very much involved in all of his accomplishments, and this meant very long days, very long nights and not that much sleep, which I just said yeah, wide open so lack of sleep and start to fuck with you mentally and he started getting really paranoid.
Speaker 1:and he was paranoid that it would all fall apart and if anyone left his congregation he took it real personally and I already talked about that in the last episode. He was trying to kill his little nephew in a fucking with a car. He tried to adopt his nephew.
Speaker 2:Yes, Run that fucker over Right so recap.
Speaker 1:And for Cindy, real quick. He wanted to adopt his nephew Well, it was Marceline's nephew His mother had. You know, she had been kind of a promiscuous woman and Jim was like I want to take you on, I want to take care of you and Ronnie. He just wanted to be back home with his mom and his brothers. Yeah, Jim didn't like that shit and literally tried to run him over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to take you up out. I'll take you up out to ghetto, you ain't leaving me, you're going, you're going down.
Speaker 1:That's crazy man, whoa. And if you were a part of his congregation, of course you had to practice a socialist lifestyle. You couldn't be bourgeois?
Speaker 2:no, jim got that gangster as we call it these days bougie yeah, once you're part of that gang, you in blood in blood out, blood out blood in whatever. Whatever you you know, jim in Jim out, jim in Jim out. So what's it all about? Jim in Jim out, oh God.
Speaker 1:So if you saw anyone in the congregation acting bougie you were you were to report to jim and he would hold corrective meetings on the subject and any other behaviors that needed correcting.
Speaker 2:I remember some of this shit now, oh hold on hold on.
Speaker 1:We're not there yet.
Speaker 2:We're not there yet, oh we're gonna get into more of that next episode.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is where it starts okay, yes. So that member of the congregation that had been reported would have to stand and be criticized for that behavior. Now that goes right to Handmaid's Tale for me Her fault.
Speaker 2:Her fault, Her fault. No, it kind of goes back to Game of Thrones over here. Man with the shame, Shame.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, either one, both.
Speaker 2:Game of Handmaid's Tale.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to get him to watch it. He hasn't watched it.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we have a fourth guest. He's being silent over here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, silent participant, that's going to be learning about Game of Thrones and Handmaid's Tale no he knows came from. You're kind of in the club. He kind of looked like a nerd like me.
Speaker 1:You're kind of in the club you watch Handmaid's Tale.
Speaker 2:You're all the way in. You get a membership card. Throwing Outlander in there Hell yeah, outlander was good too. He watched.
Speaker 1:Outlander too. Okay, he can get a membership card.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's on platform 9 and 3 quarters. It's awesome. Yeah, he's on platform nine and three quarters.
Speaker 1:It's awesome. Now some people would leave the congregation because of this practice.
Speaker 2:You better run.
Speaker 1:But, Jim yeah, Jim, would start harassing them through letters, phone calls and home visits Holy shit. He would say it was God's will that they stay a part of the congregation.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, if you leave, you're going to hell either way.
Speaker 1:Well, you're going to hell. And I mean, you're not, you're not a humanitarian, you're. You know, just yeah, yeah, yeah, he would play all those cards.
Speaker 2:He had a big ass deck, Jim with his deck. Oh God what a big day.
Speaker 1:We're going to get more into Jim's deck in episode three. But we're not there yet. Sir, Hold your tongue.
Speaker 2:Oh well, okay fine.
Speaker 1:So and Jim would start reporting vandalism and death threats to his home and his family and even claiming that his house was shot at and a bullet was found. But law enforcement would report that the three dogs in the home never barked when it's supposed to. Perpetrator was near the home and also the shot was coming from the opposite direction. Yeah, you know, it was supposed to be coming towards the home but it was going outwards. Yeah, I guess Jim didn't think that through.
Speaker 2:I'm just being quiet because you're doing all these hand signals over here and are you throwing up gang signs at me? No, okay but.
Speaker 1:Jim. He let his congregation know about this alleged threatening activity that was happening to him and told the church that it was all because of what he was trying to do for them and the community and he was alive because God was protecting him.
Speaker 2:So in this moment you can picture Jim Jones's charisma and how he would be.
Speaker 1:Well, he's not into the glasses yet, so take the glasses off. I know that's what you're picturing.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I'm just saying, like, if he's trying to sell this bullet thing and he's telling all these divine-ass things, how loud and wrong is this, son of a bitch? Well? I'm going to find some of the recordings and we're going to play them in the next two episodes so we're going to hear some of his charismatic oh, you guys, better fucking follow that shit, because I remember hearing some of that.
Speaker 1:Make sure you keep going with us okay, yes, oh man so now, like father divine, he also started talking about reincarnation as well, and his close followers that had been with him had also been with him in a previous life. Oh, okay now he stated that once upon a time he had been buddha and in a a previous life, one of his followers, joe phillips. He had been a shoka, which is like, I guess, second in command to buddha, an emperor, he was an emperor.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, he was an emperor. I mean, with all this, I forgot right now that he was an emperor. I mean, with all this Father Divine thing, I feel like we're just talking about Everclear.
Speaker 1:Well, Father Divine is going to come up some more later on Instead of saying Father Divine, I'm like. Father Divine, it's a Father Divine.
Speaker 2:I've been, I mean.
Speaker 1:Is that what you're saying Every time you?
Speaker 2:say father divine.
Speaker 1:I'm like dude do you want me to say jealous, divine?
Speaker 2:No, but we seen Everclear one time and it was just such a great thing, thank you Twice now, but the father's day the father's day thing you took me to in Ocala. Oh, we're bumping dude.
Speaker 1:We're bumping. She's like bitch. Do you want to take Jesse to this concert?
Speaker 2:I'm like bitch. Yes, so this is full circle. It's a socle, it's a socle, it's a socle.
Speaker 1:How many years ago was that?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, no, it was longer than that, because Silas is a baby, eve Six and all the just Soul Asylum. Oh man, it was a great show, it was a great day, father Divine.
Speaker 1:Father divine, we did get poured on.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it cleared up and we had a great time. We had a great day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Jim Jones was there too, but I wasn't sure.
Speaker 1:He was, he embodied art to sing Father divine.
Speaker 2:Yes, we heard it one time. Where have you been? I swear we heard it, it happened. And if it didn't happen, then you just don't believe it happened.
Speaker 1:And if it didn't happen, then you just don't believe. Now he starts claiming that he's having visions that America would soon be under nuclear attack. You know that old chestnut I mean? People were already living this fear since 1955.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're in Cold War time, right? Yeah, oh yeah, so he ran with that shit. Yeah, get two bunkers.
Speaker 1:Some people were definitely already prepared for this, like they had bunkers and basements set up for such attacks. So Jim was just going to keep the sphere going and you know you got to keep them seats filled. Keep the offering plate going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a theme park, Lindsay it is. I mean it is absolutely. Walt Disney of this son of a bitch.
Speaker 1:I was going to say he was the biggest roller coaster.
Speaker 2:The biggest roller coaster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and where was I?
Speaker 2:Don't take pictures at the end, because you ain't going to like how I'm looking, because I'm scared as shit right now.
Speaker 1:Now he would say that the attack would be on the 16th of some month and of some year, wasn't sure, in some state.
Speaker 2:In some city, in some dude's basement, wasn't sure. In some state, in some city, in some dude's basement, wasn't really sure when.
Speaker 1:But the time would definitely be 309. So it was time to find a place to move his congregation that would be safe from attacks, because Chicago would be one of these major cities that would be attacked and the fallout from that attack would level out Indianapolis, which is where they were.
Speaker 2:Did he just forget the whole eight, six, seven, five?
Speaker 1:part of that.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that was just. You got his number.
Speaker 1:That's a Lake city number.
Speaker 2:I know, I think his name is Mike.
Speaker 1:And I'm telling you, Charles Meade thought Jim Jones was the Tits.
Speaker 2:Oh, that happened in our town. Oh, that happens so much in our town. It sounds just like everything I'm speaking, so if you want to hear about Lake City, our local cult.
Speaker 1:Except Charles Meade didn't give a fuck about the black community. But we did. We did one on a local cult here. Except Charles Meade didn't give a fuck about the black community.
Speaker 2:But we did one on a local cult here in our town. Yeah, you can really tell that this would have flown if he would have just been a few years before that he did his shit here, I'm telling you, charles. Where was he doing that shit he?
Speaker 1:started in the 80s. In Illinois, right Indiana, no it was Kentucky, it was Indiana. No, it was Kentucky.
Speaker 2:It was in Kentucky and then Indiana and then here right, Because it was like Listen to our episode on Hometown Cult. Yeah yeah, hometown Cult Check that out, go back Check it out. Just check it out, Fly Lindsey. I'm sitting over here At the campfire with Cindy crisscross applesauce.
Speaker 1:Are there, s'mores? No I would love a s'more.
Speaker 2:All we got is liquor. I know Cheers everybody.
Speaker 1:Aw, she's awesome. Okay, let me take a sip before I keep going, because I still got a little bit more to go, guys. So Jones left his congregation for a while and he left some of the associates in charge and would seek out a new location for the People's Temple and his followers. So he visited British Guyana on the northeast coast of South America as a potential new spot, but he left that one alone for a while.
Speaker 2:We're only in the 60s right now.
Speaker 1:He peered into the future. Yes, yes, remember Guyana, guys, oh my.
Speaker 2:God For those of you that already don't know the future. Yes, Remember Guyana, guys.
Speaker 1:Oh my God For those of you that already don't know the outcome. Okay. So then he went to Hawaii. Now he tried to join a church there as like an associate to like to affiliate the people's temple with, but his application was denied. Then the family returned to Indianapolis for a while and he reads Esquire magazine that had, and it had an article on um nine places in the world to hide. So it was talking about nine places in the world that would survive a nuclear disaster. So Brazil seemed to be the best option out of those nine that he read about and that would isolate his followers to the point where outside sources couldn't deter them from his teachings and control. So jim set his sights on bella horizonte.
Speaker 1:Okay, and he made the arrangements and the jones family set out for south america, south america, south america, south america, where that's the only place that you said we weren't, we didn't have listeners yet we don't have listeners in South America, so I'm like if I say it enough, maybe it'll get into the algorithm. So we're on South America, we're in every continent, but South America right now yeah, isn't that awesome, I know now, russell Winberg was left in charge of preaching on the Sunday services and Jim was informed that he had already changed the nature of his sermons to more traditional Bible teachings instead of social issues, and that he was inviting evangelists to come visit.
Speaker 2:That was like completely the opposite of what Jim wanted. He turned the switch. If I haven't- made it clear.
Speaker 1:Jim did not preach from the Bible.
Speaker 2:He preached. He was preaching socialism. He was preaching socialism.
Speaker 1:He was. He would talk about social issues like he would literally get a paper and he would talk to the congregation about what was going on in the world. He would talk to them about what was happening in their world and try to help solve their problems. Like I said, he had good intentions in the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were kind of teaming there, it was pretty much just like a social gathering. With a little bit of religion.
Speaker 1:With just a little bit of religion.
Speaker 2:And a lot of power. Jim Jones was the major source of power there. Right, Just insane. I mean whoo, here he goes.
Speaker 1:So he was encouraged to come back right away, and this set off Jim's paranoia big time. Was Russell plotting to take over his congregation? Uh-oh. But Jim couldn't return. He had to keep the fear of that nuclear attack going and he had to find a place to isolate his followers. So the family rented a house in Bella Horizonte. I'm going to struggle with that, you're struggling dude, I'm struggling with that.
Speaker 2:No, no, you're struggling.
Speaker 1:No, right now I'm drunk Bella Fonte. That's what this podcast is called. Drink about something.
Speaker 2:You're Bella Fonte Drunkenante.
Speaker 1:What the fuck? All right, I'm gonna restart that sentence. So the family rented a house in bella horizonte and set out to create a new home for his followers and harry bella fonte this seemed a lot more difficult than they had imagined. Everyone spoke portuguese and it was a lot more third world than they had imagined. Everyone spoke Portuguese and it was a lot more third world than they had thought.
Speaker 2:You know, one time I hung out with Harry Belafonte's grandson.
Speaker 1:You did.
Speaker 2:Sorry to bring that back, it's okay. Rip my daddy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But that was just. That was a cool circle.
Speaker 1:Hey, we gotta get today.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:It's three years, yeah, since we lost Pops.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I miss you, pop RP.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Late daddy.
Speaker 1:But Harry Belafonte Day, oh, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, his grandson came and bought some stuff of my dad's whenever my dad passed away.
Speaker 1:Casino machines, slot machines, yeah that was really cool.
Speaker 2:Gave silas a sign baseball and shit, that was really cool, because his nephew plays baseball in puerto rico, I think it was. It was really cool.
Speaker 1:It was like full circle cool belafonte edge all the belafonte all the fontes well, jim met an evangelist there named ed momin and ed had been in that area for about three years now. Ed told jim that he would help him meet the right officials to help out with his vision for his followers. Now Ed had a daughter named Bonnie, who was about 16 years old and became very close with the Jones and ended up moving in with them, like she was like a translator. She got very close with Marceline and of course, jim had to be weird and talk to her about sex all the time.
Speaker 2:If you listen to episode one, he's obsessed.
Speaker 1:Obsessed with talking about it. Okay, and he even gave her a condom to carry in her purse. Now the sex talk didn't bother her. But what did bother her? That there was no Bible in the house. No one said grace before dinner.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What a beautiful theme park. You got going on here, bro.
Speaker 1:I mean, but like we talk about in part one, jim is very much an atheist, so yeah, but he's under the guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, he's got it planned out. This is working for him.
Speaker 1:And we'll go on to talk about in future episodes that he will talk about God around the right people Right.
Speaker 2:When it helps him and whatever he has going on. Yeah for sure, Use that right. Yeah, it's a benefit. It's a part of his deck, His very big deck that he likes to play with.
Speaker 1:His well-endowed deck, yes, okay. So Jim didn't get very far with the city officials on trying to set up a place for his followers, and then he got more word that his temple was in trouble With his absence. People were leaving in large numbers.
Speaker 2:I mean I would leave if my deck had a temple on it.
Speaker 1:And he was making less income and that meant not enough money was coming in to send to him and his family.
Speaker 2:So you know things aren't going good, yeah, the plate ain't getting full.
Speaker 1:And Jack Beam, one of Jim's closest followers and associate pastors, took his family also to join Jim in Bella Horizonte.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I have to really focus on that word. Now he gets there with his wife and his children and he is really out of his element. It's like it was just a little too third world for him. Okay, and it was also very hard to find employment in that area, Unless you spoke Portuguese and Jack and his family were like you know what, we're going to head home because he grew tired of freeloading, Basically because they were living off the church income.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know they're there and his cup was not runneth over right now.
Speaker 1:They're basically on a missions trip. I'm doing air quotes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they're using church funds to live. But church funds were now smaller and smaller yeah. Small Jim. He was like you know what, I'm going to abandon this plan too. And, Jim, he was like you know what, I'm going to abandon this plan too. And in 1963, they packed up and they moved to Rio de Janeiro, which was like a whole new world. This was a port city, yeah. So they rented an apartment near the Coca Coca Cabana.
Speaker 2:Ooh, yeah, that's hot I would like to go down there and, you know, use some cards for my deck.
Speaker 1:You want to meet somebody named lola lola. Yeah, so lola no I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Her name was lola. She was oh my god, I forgot the rest of the song cabana. There was something about she was in the cabana. She was yeah, she was doing the song In the cabana. It was something about she was in the cabana. She was yeah, she was doing the thing. Okay In the cabana, okay At Coca, yeah. So down there Jim became an English instructor and he was starting to make some better income. Now they would continue to help the needy where they could, but the people's temple was now in debt and they couldn't keep sending money to help Jim or the needy or anybody. And Jim claims that he had to do some gigolo work in order to obtain some donation money. See, he had took in an orphanage down there and kind of made them his own those were his babies, you know and he was given temple money where he could, but now there wasn't none to give.
Speaker 2:So he was slinging his deck down there at the Coca Cabana.
Speaker 1:He had to go do some gigolo work. He said that a diplomat's wife offered to donate $5,000. If Jim would give her three days of sexual bliss, diplomatic deck slinging and he supposedly got Marceline's permission to do this, and this was a story that he would tell his followers over and over, how he had to become a gigolo to save the orphans.
Speaker 2:I'm having too much fun with this. Had to, had to do it. Had to do it, had to do it. Jesus told me to.
Speaker 1:So well you know, jim Jones had now been absent from his congregation for about two years and it was in serious trouble. The temple was in debt and in danger of utilities being cut off and had lost most of its members. Membership went from about 2,000 to 100.
Speaker 2:Oh shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You better go. You got to fix that bro.
Speaker 1:Now the outreach programs continued, so the media was used to gain donations for the struggling church and they were financially back on track in just a short period of time after, you know, media got the word out, but all the associate pastors and stand-ins were now at odds with each other and they were ready to bail. So, jim, he said, fam, we got to go back, we got to go back to Indianapolis. So the Jones return, they get the church back in order, along with the help of his close associates, and now we're going to start getting into the real cult territory.
Speaker 2:He's changing gears.
Speaker 1:So Jim starts to slowly condition his congregation to accept the fact that he is God. Uh-uh, and he continues to fearmonger the congregation, and by 1966.
Speaker 2:Pick up sticks. I knew you were going to say that. So it was just like, okay, so he's down in South America slinging his deck, and he became God himself, I guess. So, dude, we need to go, we're going to Rio, we're going to sling some decks.
Speaker 1:The closest I'm going to get to Rio is probably watching Rio. The movies the movie with the birds.
Speaker 2:I'm happy with that. I really am. I really am. Yeah, it's me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be kidnapped. You know what I'm saying, Right? Well, I mean, I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately. He found a new location for his congregation to migrate to. This would be Ukiah California.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, you know, you can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
Speaker 1:You sure can't. Yeah, that's a Slipknot song. If you guys don't know, look it up. What was it called? Eyeless?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes Look me up, my Brando. My Listen to it. It's a great song. It's great, love it. It's a great song, love it.
Speaker 2:It's good. Yes, deftones just released a new song. By the way, keep on going, lindsay.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this would be now Ukiah California. This would be the best place to survive a nuclear attack. They had more liberal views and more racial equality. The wind blew a certain direction. I mean, it was just, it was a whole thing. Jim's made it California, yeah, so members of the congregation would sell their homes and quit their jobs and set out for the promised land. Uh-uh yeah, they formed a small community, aka a commune, and they built a new church with a full kitchen and even had a swimming pool inside.
Speaker 2:That's nice, it's a luxury vacation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a whole story behind that in both books Road to Jonestown and Raven, where it talks about how that came to be. I encourage y'all to read it.
Speaker 2:So what was Raven?
Speaker 1:like you said, yes, it's pretty bougie that is really bougie Raven and, like you said, yeah that is really bougie. Raven was like his hair right. Yes, so you said his hair was Raven. His hair was of the Raven.
Speaker 1:Oh man isn't that hot. So Jim was now a deity, a prophet, a healer and a father to his congregation. Now he would gain new followers in the area, including a lawyer which I accidentally spelled Blair named Tim Stone. Tim was impressed with Jim's vision and liked how Jim would work right alongside his followers for their community, because Jim would. He would get right down in there and do all the dirty work with them. Tim had a girlfriend named Grace, who he started taking along to the temple service meetings. And Tim was pretty well off and drove a Porsche and gave up all of his worldly possessions to join the people's temple. That's all it's all.
Speaker 1:And he brought along Grace with him and they ended up getting married and Grace and Tim will be a big part of part three.
Speaker 2:So Tim was all about that Grace, about that Grace.
Speaker 1:No trouble Now. Jim had a very brilliant lawyer on his team, I mean, and he was brilliant. Like I said, we'll talk more about him in part three. And so Jim was a teacher of civics and American history at this time.
Speaker 2:This is fixing to a fucking explode, Lindsay, oh fuck.
Speaker 1:Marceline was an inspector of hospitals and nursing homes and Lynette gotta give mama a job. She worked for the Red Cross.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Well, Ukiah didn't really turn out to be as racially integrated as Jim had proclaimed. In fact, it was pretty conservative and it was nicknamed Redneck Valley. What yes?
Speaker 2:That's a big term, oh.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a big term, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So, to keep his followers from leaving, he continued to do the fear mongering of the nuclear attack and claimed that there was a cave, that all commune members could survive in this cave after the disaster. And the truth was that there was a cave, but it was really not inhabitable Like you would have had to lower people down into it.
Speaker 2:It was a thing, it's a no take.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a lot of caves in that area. We talked about that in the last episode that you were in, so near that area, same area, wow.
Speaker 2:So like he's just building, and you have the whole government that is pushing a big narrative for, like global takeovers and nuclear bombs, everybody's building all these storm shelters, everybody's just they don't know where to go. So he just feels like he can control massive groups of people and that's what he's wanting. Is that power? Absolutely, I feel like he's just, he's setting himself up and he's just.
Speaker 1:I mean he was very close with Father Divine. He won't let, he won't have a father, anybody that's up and he's fixing to. Just I got it. I mean he was still very close with Father Divine. He wanted what Father Divine had.
Speaker 2:Well, anybody that's believing that he's a divine being, you know, and if they believe that, they're going to be full in, like all damn, he's got a big ass dick. It's huge Well behind closed doors.
Speaker 1:he started to think of other potential locations, like Vancouver or Guadalajara, so he and Joe Phillips would start making scouting trips for these areas.
Speaker 2:If you had went to Costa Maya and never got off the boat.
Speaker 1:Never got off the boat, jesus Christ. That is because we went to Costa Maya and we couldn't get off the boat. Now the rank and files were still steadily recruiting and those recruited, they would also start recruiting. So teens were starting to come to the temple services and Jim would tell them what was expected of them. You know out in the world and to go do good in school and be kind to those of all races here we go again Kind of good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good. They were also taught that in the event, the event of nuclear war, that they were to care for the elderly, which is also pretty good. You know, they were taught how to read a compass and how to use a crossbow.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Survival with Jimmy.
Speaker 1:And Jim would lead protests about the Vietnam War, because we are, you know, we're in that era, we're in that time period.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:He would lead the protests and he gained the title of foreman of the county grand jury by a very impressed judge named Robert Winslow In August of 1966.
Speaker 2:Pick up Decks.
Speaker 1:Jim would tell his congregation that there was to be an accident cycle coming and if any members decided to misbehave, this period would end on September 16th. As the date approached, no one was hurt until September 11th.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is very fucking yes it was way before the 9-11. 9-11.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, way before. Wow. Now there was a member named Whitey Freestone who was called upon quite a bit and he was bashed a lot for a lot of different transgressions. I'm going to list everything that you could be bashed for in the next episode, but this one was. You know, whitey was bashed a lot for being bougie bourgeois and Jim liked to do that. You know, he liked to call his members up and he would bash you in front of the whole congregation for, you know, very minor infractions. Now, no one else noticed this shit, but Jim and what father says goes Okay. So Whitey apologized to the congregation and on his way home that night Whitey drove off a cliff on the very windy road back to Ukiah, so they would have to go up. It was called the Golden Rule Temple was where they would hold their services. Now they were still the people's temple, but they would have to like, they had to borrow, like lease out of the temple.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they would have to go up this windy road up and windy road back down, and why he just drove off a fucking cliff. I had no idea if it was on purpose or Jim's prophesied accident, or if it was an accident on purpose set up by Jim Jones, damn Lindsay. But Jim was flagged down and all of the family had survived except one, whitey's daughter, and according to Jim, he was the one that saved them. Oh yeah, divine. And the insurance payout for the car, which was $1,300, was put right in that offering plate.
Speaker 1:Cha-ching, cha-ching.
Speaker 2:That could be $1,300.
Speaker 1:Yes, $1,300. It's all Harris, doll Harris, it's all Harris. So now, all Harris, it's all Harris. So now we're in 1968, okay, and Martin Luther King has been assassinated. There was a memorial service for him at the Macedonia Baptist Church in San Francisco and Jim Jones took about 150 temple members who at this time were mostly white Remember before back in Indiana was mostly black Right but the ones that he got to sell their shit and possessions, those were some dumb ass white people.
Speaker 2:They came over. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The following of the divine so they drove the hundred miles to San Francisco to pay their respects to you know.
Speaker 2:So this is their first big public presentation. They show up as in California, in San Francisco.
Speaker 1:And you know the preacher of this church. He was impressed with this white man who was all for racial equality and Jim was invited up to say a few words. And Jim was invited up to say a few words and now he announced that he's also going to be having a big memorial service up in Mendocino County where Ukiah is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, y'all, come on, bring a covered dish yes, and everyone was invited to join the.
Speaker 1:People's Temple and he took emergency funds and rented out the county fairgrounds in Ukiah and made it a whole well, actually it's Mendocino County Fair. Yeah, he made it a big old hoopla and of course this had to include sermons equipped with plants for his cancer removal trickery, oh.
Speaker 2:Here we go.
Speaker 1:This was really just a ploy to recruit more members of the black community from San Francisco.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:And the absolute wild thing was that Jim would tell his followers that were in on the trick, that were in on you know that whole bullshit, that the visitors cannot look too close at the quote unquote cancer aka Rotten chicken Chicken guts yeah. And that, if that happened, they were to swallow it. Ooh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's gross, I'm going to take it back. I know Ooh.
Speaker 1:Also in normal temple services Jim would rarely quote the Bible and if he did, it was mostly negative, which we'll get more into that in part three. But this sermon he quoted the good book in a positive manner to make the visitors feel at home, aka he tricked the shit out of them yeah. So the ranks and files attained phone numbers and addresses of the visitors and would reach out to them afterwards encouraging their return.
Speaker 2:How many times have you been to a church gathering where they want your name, your address, your phone number? Every one of them, yes.
Speaker 1:Every one of them Damn. Oh yeah, so my dad was a church hopper when I was growing up, so we would usually get calls after we filled out the paperwork.
Speaker 2:Oh, they would show up knocking. Oh, they didn't knock on our door. Oh, man, they showed up at my house. They used to send like cards. Oh, no, no, no, I had them come to my house.
Speaker 1:Because my job, because my dad had his own landscaping business. So my job when I got home from school was to check the. You know, we had the answering machine and I had to write down the messages and phone numbers and everything. And every day it seemed like we were getting a call from a different church. Because my dad was a church hopper. He wanted to go somewhere where he felt at home and where he felt like they weren't begging for money every Sunday. But of course he never found that, because all churches are going to be begging for money every Sunday.
Speaker 1:So the People's Temple was offering bus rides for the 200 mile round trip to attend their services, Because by now you know they've got more money, They've got a whole commune of people bringing in their whole income, their Social Security checks, their pension checks, their severance packages they got from quitting their jobs, got them.
Speaker 1:Then they saw how the People's Temple members would get things done like Social Security paperwork. They would help some of these folks get on welfare or disability. So the People's Temple gained some more residents and new followers. Some people would start, you know, they would live on the commune. Some people would just come every sunday. So by 1969 many people's temple members had city, county and government jobs and they were making shit happen. Ukiah will have been invaded. Okay now these new residents were now receiving government assistance that could also contribute to the community's income. But also in 1969, things started to get a little different in the people's temple, which would begin with their leader, and that's where we're going to end today.
Speaker 2:Shit's fitting to change, was it the?
Speaker 1:summer of 69? Absolutely, hell yeah. So I'm not going to go too much into it. So please stay tuned for part three. It's going to get wild, it's going to get gross, holy shit.
Speaker 2:I was just almost over here like I've been on edge waiting for some shit, and then there's going to be a lot of Jim Jones. The driving off, the driving off the cliff, the like ranking out people in front of the congregation. Oh, that's going to get worse and worse.
Speaker 1:People in front of the congregation oh, that's going to get worse and worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, oh yeah, it's getting bad.
Speaker 1:Part four is going to be a lot more of that.
Speaker 2:That's full puddle.
Speaker 1:Part three is going to be a lot of Jim Jones' deck.
Speaker 2:Okay, His big deck His big deck, all right yeah. Well, I'm excited about that. Lindsay, you did a great job. Thank you did a great job. Thank you, Cindy, for hanging out with us yeah. I feel like it's my turn though.
Speaker 1:It is. What band are you going to plug today?
Speaker 2:I'm allowed to play music now and I got this cool ass band dude, takeaway Thieves dude. You need to check these bands out, like everybody that's listening right now. I mean, the last band last weekend was so good, so good. One of them's on Octane right now. They're like they're doing something.
Speaker 1:Aurora Wave is making waves. They are, they are the summer fire. And what did I tell?
Speaker 2:everybody at Rockville. They're going to be the summer hit dude. We're going to see them there next year. Absolutely, aurora Wave is the summer hit. They're touring around, they're fixing to hit national, they're fixing to hit international.
Speaker 1:Yes, huge, so good. They're like all over my TikTok everything.
Speaker 2:They're all in my algorithm, so I got I got the takeaway thieves here, takeaway thieves and I got this song here. It's called true story and I want to play that shit. All right, here we go, we'll see, right back, I'll tell the love and glory. So tell me your true story From start to day. Again, let me say To start again. When the shadows come alive, take a breath and blow it all away. All the stars up in the sky, listen back on what we used to see, letting all the hours go. We will make them all come back one day and tell me your true story, the one that never ends. A test of love and glory. Oh. So tell me your true story. I'm stuck to tell again. Let's pretend I'm stuck to jail again. Let's pretend, let it all be out of school, let it all be out of school. We will make them all come back one day. Tell me your true story the world that never ends A death of lovely glory. So tell me you're too started. Or start to tell again. Let's pretend To start again.
Speaker 1:Holy shit, lindsay Hell yeah, so Takeaway Thieves was formed in 2018, and they're based in Blackpool, UK.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is so like perfect for like the sound and everything I've been joking about, like Everclear and the bands and the oh, I love it. Yes, I love it. It sounds like.
Speaker 1:Green Day.
Speaker 2:It's got a little Green Day a little Like Everclear and the bands. Oh, I love it. Yes, I love it. It sounds like. Green Day. It's got a little Green Day.
Speaker 1:So they say that they are old school hard rock with a glam swagger.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Follow them on the Instagram and they have their whole link tree. You can follow them on YouTube, facebook, instagram, twitter, spotify and TikTok.
Speaker 2:So cool, yes, so cool.
Speaker 1:Love it Swag store.
Speaker 2:Check them out. Great Britain, hey, hey, great Britain. Yes, e-buy Gum over there.
Speaker 1:E-Buy Gum. That's Yorkshire.
Speaker 2:Oh well.
Speaker 1:The Yorkshire boys.
Speaker 2:They probably know. They probably know. Oh, I'm sure they know. Lindsay, you had a great story, holy shit. The music was great and the deck of Mr Jim was very great.
Speaker 1:All right, not great at all, really. I don't know if I said it at the top of the episode, but this is definitely going to be a four-parter. Guys, stay tuned. Yeah, it's going to get more wild, and then it's going to be crazy.
Speaker 2:It's going to be the tits, the Jim tits, the gym tits.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a lot. I'm out of alcohol. I'm going to go ahead and put blanket trigger warnings on the next two episodes. So may all your warnings be triggered and all your triggers be warned. I'm your father. Yeah, it's going to be a lot.
Speaker 2:Come to the dark side. I'm sorry, I don't know if we were trying to get it. It's going to get dark. I can't even geek the right way, but hey, you did a great job. Thank you. We had some great guests over here.
Speaker 1:I am riveted by these two books that I am listening to on audiobook. Yeah, books are crazy. I don't have time to sit down and read them, so I am definitely listening. The theme park is wild, wild. The deck's getting big big deck it's growing it's swelling yeah it's gonna be deep inside you.
Speaker 2:On part three all right and we will see you guys next week yes, I just can't wait. I cannot wait, lindsey, because I think puddleage is coming, because I haven't been really puddled yet.
Speaker 1:Just a little bit of puddleage there's gonna be no puddling in the next episode, not on three oh four, wait till four, bring, bring your tissues at four but three tissues at four and three and we'll pee at three but puddling on four. Something like that.
Speaker 2:I'm lost and I'm out of. I'm out of stuff over here, I'm out of you know whatever.
Speaker 1:We're out of drinks, so that means yeah, we'll see yeah.
Speaker 2:We've had a great time, you guys. So much for tuning in. Check us out on wild build. Drink about something.
Speaker 1:Dot site if you haven't heard yet yes, follow us on instagram wherever you listen to your podcast, all the the stuff, youtube, whatever.
Speaker 2:Just type in gen z on youtube. J-e-n-d-s-e-y, j-e-n-d-s-e-y.
Speaker 1:J-E-N-D-S-E-Y. Our following is building, just like Jim Jones.
Speaker 2:His dick Whoa Lindsay.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding. We're not cult leaders, guys. We just want you to listen to our shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and as always, don't drink the Kool-Aid and we will see you guys next Friday.
Speaker 1:And it's the Flavor Aid. Don't drink that shit, neither. No it ain't even real fucking cool Off brand, but we'll get there, we'll get there.
Speaker 2:So, yep, see you guys next Friday. Yes, bye.
