SPEAKER_05: 0:00

Hey Jesse. Hello, Lindsay. What are you drinking this afternoon? Good boy.

SPEAKER_04: 0:07

I'm just gonna say good boy over here.

SPEAKER_05: 0:10

And who is Good Boy Made by? My favorite golfers. So amazing.

SPEAKER_04: 0:15

And it's just like the uh is it a cranberry or some kind of? What did you get?

SPEAKER_05: 0:20

Blackberry?

SPEAKER_04: 0:21

Blackberry, cranberry, stuff.

SPEAKER_05: 0:22

But who's Good Boy Made by? You tell me, Lindsay. You know all the John Delaney, right? Yeah, that's that's that's his government name, right? Oh my god, I have to Google it. Daly. Where the fuck did I get Delaney?

SPEAKER_04: 0:34

I knew you were gonna fuck it up.

SPEAKER_05: 0:36

Daly and his pants. And his flask and his everything. John Daly. Why did I say Delaney? I knew I was gonna fuck it up because I'm a little buzzed. It just hit me.

SPEAKER_04: 0:47

You're okay, Lindsay, but you know, I put a little crown with it, but because you know, I like it, and I like it a little harder than.

SPEAKER_05: 0:55

But what flavor did you get? Do you know? Is it blackberry?

SPEAKER_04: 0:57

Is it cranberry or blackberry? Blackberry. It was a blackberry sweet tea.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01

So John Daly makes a hard seltzer that is flavored iced tea. And it has less calories, like five less calories than other seltzers.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14

And I'm still drinking it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15

So while we were in while we were in Hampton Beach, New Hampshire.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18

I'm still drinking it right now.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20

Oh my God, let me talk. Let me say the side story where how we've discovered the street.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24

Oh yes. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25

So we were in Hampton Beach, New Hampshire. Jesse and I are walking the streets because it's off season. We're looking for a place where we can find some seltzers to take back to the room. And we found a little package store. I was like, all right, we'll try these because it's John Daly. And then I'm gonna get some. They had lime only white claws, wasn't it? It was just pure, it was like all lime. And I love the lime. So bring it all the way out.

SPEAKER_04: 1:53

Okay, bring it all the way out, Lindsay. I want to hear the whole story. I want to hear it. I want to hear your rendition of what the fuck really happened while we were up there.

SPEAKER_05: 2:02

So we get to back to the room. Yes! The room is very tiny, but the balcony is fucking amazing. So we hung out on the balcony a lot. And it had a perfect view of the ocean. It was gorgeous. So um we're drinking the John Daly's. I had a half of one, and I was like, I don't like it. So Jesse's like, I like it, and I'm gonna drink all these bitches. Yeah. And he did. And he ended up like stripping down to his undies and was like, and he you had on your undies and sunglasses, and you're like, I'm on vacation. I've done all kinds of driving. Fuck these pants. I'm just yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:42

This is not a high up balcony. This is a second floor balcony.

SPEAKER_05: 2:46

Everybody can see us. There's everybody can see us and neighbors can see us. You know what, Lindsay? But you had on pretty panties.

SPEAKER_04: 2:51

I gotta look. I gotta look right now. I think I'm wearing the same underwear that I was wearing then. I saw the ones you were wearing. Or they're not.

SPEAKER_05: 3:00

You had on the palm trees. No. You had on the ones with pink palm trees. Oh. It looked like a bathing suit. Didn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 3:07

So it wasn't like inappropriate. No. But for our little family.

SPEAKER_05: 3:12

You look like you could have been John Daly's brother.

SPEAKER_04: 3:15

On vacation.

SPEAKER_05: 3:15

On vacation. John Daly on vacation. Out there drinking John Daly hard seltzer.

SPEAKER_04: 3:21

For some reason I was hot. I don't know why I was like, it was warm. But it shouldn't have been. We were in like New England area.

SPEAKER_05: 3:28

It did not get cold till we got to New York, which was two days later.

SPEAKER_04: 3:33

You're right. And they must have had some cold because I seen the leaves changing a little bit, but still, yeah, it wasn't cold as I thought it would have been. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 3:40

The temperature did drop the next morning because when we went out to watch the sunrise, I was like, let me get my sweater. Sweater weather. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 3:48

What are you drinking over there, Lindsay? With your story.

SPEAKER_05: 3:51

So I have um I got this to base this week, and I have the mixture of the lemon and the lime, so it's like a hard seltzer sprite. It's so good.

SPEAKER_04: 3:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 4:00

It's one of my favorite mixtures.

SPEAKER_04: 4:02

Our listeners want to see you do something extravagant next podcast. You need to do something out of the box. Lindsay, out of the box next podcast. I just want to get people excited for that.

SPEAKER_05: 4:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 4:15

Is that is that cool? That's cool. We're going to fist bump on something wild.

SPEAKER_05: 4:19

Like a wild drink?

SPEAKER_04: 4:20

Something crazy. I want Lindsay to do something completely insane for our next podcast. All right. Is that cool? Yeah. Not putting you on the spot, but let's do something way out there. I don't know what the hell. An elephant fart or something stupid like that? What was a gorilla fart that I used to drink uh in Jacksonville years ago? That was a cool drink. It was wild.

SPEAKER_05: 4:43

Well, we'll we'll Google some stuff and we'll get the ingredients and we'll maybe we need to go back to the chart for next podcast. And you know what? It okay, I'm not even gonna tell you what we're talking about next time, but it'll be it'll be on brand. I'll do something on brand for that time period. Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_04: 4:58

Let's do it. Is it on our chart? Because we need to go back to the chart.

SPEAKER_05: 5:01

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_04: 5:01

We have a whole season, we have a chart, and I think we shared it live, like on video on YouTube and everything. Yeah. So we need to go back to the chart, maybe, or you know, let's do something crazy. I want to do something crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 5:14

I'm gonna apologize in advance. We have had, so we did usually we do our episode and then we record a recap afterwards because it's called Drunk About Something. So we want to be drunk, but we did it reverse today because we wanted to be a little more serious on our recap because we were recapping about Emily Pike, which is the serious subject. It was we need to just so we're a little more buzzed than normal. Oh, yeah. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_04: 5:41

It's gonna be a fun one, right? It's gonna be a fun one, and I can't wait to do it. And Lindsay, let's just kick this thing off. You ready? I'm ready. Oh my god, happy Friday, dude. I want to bump this. Can I bump this?

SPEAKER_05: 5:55

Bump it all the way.

SPEAKER_04: 6:17

So we're in season two. Do you think I should change the theme song ever?

SPEAKER_05: 6:21

No, ever. Ever, never? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04: 6:23

Well, why am I so people that have been listening to podcasts for thousands of years, back in uh in the caveman days and stuff, like I they have the same theme song forever, forever, ever, ever, and ever. So this is gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_05: 6:38

All the ones that I listen to I can't change it. That are multi-million dollar ones, they have the same theme song.

SPEAKER_04: 6:46

The same theme theme?

SPEAKER_05: 6:48

The same theme song.

SPEAKER_04: 6:49

The fame one. The theme the all of fame theme thong that they ever had that thing was started.

SPEAKER_05: 6:56

Okay. I gotta ask you really quick.

SPEAKER_04: 6:58

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05: 6:58

What made you feel old this week?

SPEAKER_04: 7:00

I remember what I put on this paper that you have in front of you, Lindsay. I do.

SPEAKER_05: 7:05

So, do you want to read it? You can.

SPEAKER_04: 7:07

No, I don't. I do remember it this time. I'm not gonna look at it. I'm not gonna look at it, Lindsay. Sallas has been jamming Rage Against the Machine.

SPEAKER_05: 7:15

And who else?

SPEAKER_04: 7:16

Oh, so many.

SPEAKER_05: 7:18

Well, and who is who else is uh who else is Rage Against the Machine? What other band are they in? Audio Slam with Chris Cornell.

SPEAKER_04: 7:25

And I was telling him about Prophets of Rage and how, okay, we inadvertently kind of bestowed that upon him, but we didn't push it on him. No. So him as a child, we listened to a lot of music growing up, and I guess he just clasped onto it, but like he wasn't not completely involved until the last few months to the part to the point.

SPEAKER_05: 7:49

But he was obsessed with rage when he was a toddler.

SPEAKER_04: 7:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 7:53

And now he is re-obsessed, broke away, went to Green Day, did he always been through so many things metallic, ACDC, white stripes, ACDC, so many obsessions. Ozzie Osborne.

SPEAKER_04: 8:05

But now he is on rage against machine, which is like at my age.

SPEAKER_05: 8:08

And he's so cute. He's wearing hats like Tomarello. Like, I love it so much. And he looks cute in hats. He's adorable.

SPEAKER_04: 8:14

S button-up shirts, some little uh mechanics shirts. Some mechanic shirts. Yes, with the little things. But anyhow, so at my age, I wasn't much older. I was probably about another year and a half-ish older than him when I was.

SPEAKER_05: 8:28

Oh, you were his age when I latched on. Yeah. I latched on. I was a little older because I didn't discover rage until Godzilla Soundtrack with no shelter.

SPEAKER_04: 8:38

Yeah, you are just such a late bloomin' flower. That's why your flower petals just are so bright.

SPEAKER_05: 8:44

They are so bright.

SPEAKER_04: 8:45

Mine are like old and wilted.

SPEAKER_05: 8:47

No. No. No, because we latch on to new bands.

SPEAKER_04: 8:50

I may have more flower petals than you at the moment, but mine are just older. Does that make sense? I don't know. Whatever. But Silas fucking latched on fully on the Raging His Machine, and I'm loving it. And he's wanting the guitar that I've always wanted in my life.

SPEAKER_05: 9:05

Arm the homeless. That makes me feel old because we saw that in real time when we saw Prophets of Rage.

SPEAKER_04: 9:12

We have seen the Arm L twice. Yeah. We've seen it at Rockville a little bit. We didn't watch the set, but we've seen the set. Yes, that makes sense. Different stages.

SPEAKER_05: 9:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:21

Tom Morello's just He's a God. He is a God, a rock god. And we've seen how many rock gods have you seen, real quick?

SPEAKER_05: 9:30

Oh, I can't count.

SPEAKER_04: 9:31

No, like guitar rock gods.

SPEAKER_05: 9:33

Slash.

SPEAKER_04: 9:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 9:35

Um, Tom Marello.

SPEAKER_04: 9:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 9:38

What's his name? Oh my god, shh don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me. My boo. My boo from Slipknot. Jim Root.

SPEAKER_04: 9:45

Jim Root.

SPEAKER_05: 9:46

Um Cody Quistad. He's a god, in my opinion. I love Cody from Wage War.

SPEAKER_04: 9:53

I'm gonna give you this right here, Sinister Gates.

SPEAKER_05: 9:55

Oh my god. I've seen the guests. That was yeah, that was next. And I wanted to listen to uh A7X on the way home and I forgot as soon as we got in the car.

SPEAKER_04: 10:05

No, we have seen so many iconic just the guitar players, period. We haven't seen Angus yet, though. I mean, Angus at his age is still no matter what. We've saw West Borland. We've seen West Borland.

SPEAKER_05: 10:22

We've seen Head Monkey Monkey We're so fucking on the same page here.

SPEAKER_04: 10:30

No, honestly, like there've just been so many iconic, just they changed the world being in that guitar.

SPEAKER_05: 10:37

The most amazing bassist of all time, fucking Les Claybles.

SPEAKER_04: 10:42

Yeah, I mean, that's bass god style. I know, but I mean like I get it.

SPEAKER_05: 10:47

Oh, there's just so many in it. We'll have to sit down and like make a list.

SPEAKER_04: 10:51

Should we? Should we? Y'all let us know who your favorite guitar player is. I want to know who your favorite guitar player is.

SPEAKER_05: 10:58

Because ours is is, I mean, we both love Jimi Hendrix, but he's no longer with us.

SPEAKER_04: 11:03

But Tom is you know, everybody loves Jimmy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:07

But but Tom Morello, that's us. That's millennials. D. Yeah. N. A.

SPEAKER_04: 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:14

And Wes also, yeah. You know, and you know what?

SPEAKER_04: 11:17

You can strip it all the way down to white stripes because simplicity is huge if you do it the right way. So it doesn't matter, right? Jack White can fucking play.

SPEAKER_05: 11:27

Jack White! Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04: 11:29

Rock and roll hall of fame. Let's talk about that real quick.

SPEAKER_05: 11:32

And then you got Buckethead.

SPEAKER_04: 11:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04: 11:36

And John Five.

SPEAKER_05: 11:38

Why don't we John Five? Fuck. Whoa, we've seen him twice. Yeah, we've seen him with Rob and with Manson, right? Yeah. Yeah. How we we haven't seen Lee. We did see Lita Ford, didn't we? Yeah.

unknown: 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:53

Did we see Lita Ford? I think so. With Alice Cooper? Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 11:58

And then I was talking about that when Silas, I was like, this guy's almost he's glam rock, but he's like Alice Cooper. We've seen him get beheaded.

SPEAKER_05: 12:06

Yes. Yeah. And then, so Jesse, right now, you guys um are if we have any uh Gen X and and Beyond listeners, we're really sorry, but we love the guitarists from Leonard Skinner, but we can never remember their names. Did they make it to Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? They sure as fuck did. Hold on, hold on. We're gonna Google it right now.

SPEAKER_04: 12:31

We're gonna do this. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You know, one of our favorite rap groups.

SPEAKER_05: 12:37

Hey Google. Leonard Skinner guitarists. Alright, so we got Ricky Medlock, Mark, Matajaca, and Damon Johnson. And oh my god, and we forgot fucking Kurt Hammett.

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 12:54

Hammond. Hammond Hammett Hammett. Is it Hammett or Hammond?

SPEAKER_04: 12:58

Hammond.

SPEAKER_05: 12:58

It's Hammett. It's Hammett.

SPEAKER_04: 13:00

Yeah. With a T. Metallica.

SPEAKER_05: 13:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 13:02

Yes. So, but no, Leonard Skinner is like literally 50 miles away from us.

SPEAKER_05: 13:08

We don't know. So is what? Because I feel like I wish Morland was too. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 13:13

Well, yeah, yeah. Well, well, well, our DNA, but uh past DNA. Oh my god. Lindsay. Lindsay, outcast.

SPEAKER_05: 13:24

That is Hammett. You were correct.

SPEAKER_04: 13:26

Hammett. You were hammett.

SPEAKER_05: 13:28

You were right. Or was I right?

SPEAKER_04: 13:31

I thought I said T, but I don't remember now. It's been too long ago. It's Hammett. Okay. This has been long time ago.

SPEAKER_05: 13:37

We're ashamed of ourselves.

SPEAKER_04: 13:38

This is a long time ago, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_05: 13:40

Yes. But we have seen The Rock Gods. We have seen The Rock Gods. Sound Garden.

SPEAKER_04: 13:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 13:50

Whose lead singer was also in Rage.

SPEAKER_04: 13:53

So our unicorns, though, Outcast for sure. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. System of a Down.

SPEAKER_05: 14:04

Don't get down. That's uh Jesse and I love that song. That's our favorite outcast song. Love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 14:14

And for them to get inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And Jim Gary. Jim Carrey?

SPEAKER_05: 14:19

You just said Jim Gary. I'm done. I'm done. I'm going to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_04: 14:26

Well, he was there. All the Gary's jacket.

SPEAKER_05: 14:29

I loved his whole fit.

SPEAKER_04: 14:30

I did. I really did. It was just amazing. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Oh my God, check it out. So, with all that being said, Lindsay, what made you feel old this week?

SPEAKER_05: 14:43

How fast time is going by. And I may have said this before, but the fact that I am buying Thanksgiving groceries, I feel like I just did this two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04: 14:57

Like 10 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_05: 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 14:59

Yeah. You know, it seems generic whenever I bring up things and I'm like, I think I've already said this before. Oh my God, time is flying so fast.

SPEAKER_05: 15:11

And oh wow, dude. We're crazy already.

SPEAKER_04: 15:14

We don't even know it.

SPEAKER_05: 15:15

When we were kids, we would talk about how shit would just take forever, but our children are talking about how fast time is going. So it's like it's weird.

SPEAKER_04: 15:25

I'm confused.

SPEAKER_05: 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 15:26

Yeah, because it felt like it took forever to get to summer. And I was just like, I couldn't wait for and then summer was over.

SPEAKER_05: 15:32

Summer! Because we well, we had such an epic summer, and we're gonna do that all over again next year. Like we had.

SPEAKER_04: 15:39

You know, the cool thing about it is eventually we're gonna be grabbing like grandkids up for summer. And I was talking to you.

SPEAKER_05: 15:44

We already are. They went with us every time.

SPEAKER_04: 15:46

Yeah, I want I want a whole grandkid just one for like a week during summer. Just to have like that.

SPEAKER_05: 15:52

Every day, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 15:53

Yeah, a whole week just one, and just spend bestow upon all that we can put on them.

SPEAKER_05: 16:01

We'll wait until the third one is like five, then we'll start doing that.

SPEAKER_04: 16:04

Okay, yeah. I'm down. I'm down. Yeah, we had the grandkids over you know this weekend, and I love it so much. And I want to spend so much personal time with them without all the other ones, because we got like four. And right now uncleism was a big thing. Uh Lindsay, you know, when whenever Gen Z started, uncleism was a big thing for me. And I love to bestow personal time on to any human that I could that was, you know, you know, my nieces and nephews, and personal time, and and they're they're all they all consider me as their favorite uncle. It's because I would take them as personal time. And some of them did some crazy things, you know. I had one of them shit on me one time. I was at a powwow.

SPEAKER_05: 16:52

Well, that's that's part of being an uncle. I love it.

SPEAKER_04: 16:56

I love it. It's just, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 16:58

That's what I had we had just started dating. Like we were, what, maybe two months in, and you called me that next morning to check in. He went to a powwow with his nephew. I couldn't go because I had to work, like I was off Saturday, but I had to work Sunday. And a powwow is a three-day event. Yeah. Especially one out of town. You don't really want to try to date. We, I mean, we did make it work a lot for day trips.

SPEAKER_04: 17:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 17:22

But um, but what you were host drum.

SPEAKER_04: 17:26

Lead singer of the host drum.

SPEAKER_05: 17:28

Yeah, lead singer of the host drum, and you had to be gone the full the full weekend. Yeah. And I couldn't do it because, like I said, first of all, we had just met. I work in a restaurant. It's hard to get, and I was only six, I was only six years in. Now I'm almost 20. January would be 20 years in.

SPEAKER_04: 17:45

You'd be like, dude, I'm going to go ahead and do it.

SPEAKER_05: 17:47

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I've already requested Mother's Day weekend off, which my boss is gonna shit a brick. But guess what? It's already approved. So bless for me. It's already approved. Can't say shit.

SPEAKER_04: 17:57

Years ago in early Gen Zill, like I would go off and you know, we I would do my you know, powwows and things, you know, things that I had already committed to before that. Yeah, before we met. I've stepped away a little bit, but I think we're gonna go back. I think I want to go back in March. I think it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05: 18:14

Well, we had other things, there was other things that you wanted to do. You had done all that for so long. You're like, all right, I want to do this too. Yeah. And which was pursue the band. And us stuff too. And us stuff and trips, and there's only so many hours and weeks and months and years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:32

But you have stories.

SPEAKER_05: 18:35

I have a a a pretty long one today. You told me that I needed my plant this week. So, y'all. This one. Lock in. Let's get started. So I wanted to cover another cult. Oh. And I was looking through my saved cases, and I found the one that I wanted to talk about this week. So Jesse and I recently visited Fall River, Massachusetts. Oh. And stayed at Lizzie at the Lizzie Borden house and covered the crimes that happened there, which are, you know, the most most people are familiar with. But did you know that there was a satanic cult happening around the time of the satanic panic in that area?

SPEAKER_04: 19:11

Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 19:13

So that's what we're drinking about today.

SPEAKER_04: 19:15

Oh, cheers. Yes, cheers. By the way, by all means.

SPEAKER_05: 19:18

Clink. Let's take a sip. I need to vocal. We got a little cold coming on.

SPEAKER_04: 19:23

We're all kind of snotty over here, but you know, we're we're doing the damn thing, and Lindsay's fixing the puddle the fuck out of me. I didn't know it was a cult thing. Holy shit. We did one on our own town one time. Yeah, check that out.

SPEAKER_05: 19:37

Hometown Colt. Go back to our backlog. Whoa. Well, in the 70s and 80s, Fall River experienced a large climb in sex work due to the recession at that time. And it had been building for quite some time. So during the time of the Borden murders, this town was booming with the textile industry. But by the 70s, it was a lot different. By the 1970s, it was a lot different. Because that happened in the late 1800s. And when we went, it was beautiful again. So Fall River has been through some shit, y'all. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 20:09

Ethnicity, though, it was a lot of Portuguese people.

SPEAKER_05: 20:11

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 20:12

Are we going to talk about something?

SPEAKER_05: 20:13

We might no, no, no, no. Not this time. Um, we might have to go way back for that, way before the boarding, because Portuguese immigrants was already pretty predominant through there. And they are now, right?

SPEAKER_04: 20:25

Wow. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 20:27

So sex work was so rampant that women from other cities would come to work the streets of Fall River to make money to provide for their families.

SPEAKER_04: 20:37

They knew where to go to get a come up.

SPEAKER_05: 20:39

And clients from all over came to partake in this industry, some as far away as Florida. What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:47

So is that like the Epstein Island of fucking?

SPEAKER_05: 20:51

It was. And it's really when I get further into it, you're when I tell you the ages of some of these people involved, it's Oh no, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_04: 21:00

Yeah. Cause you know, me, I've been so fucking just predominantly fucking enthusiastic about getting justice for what people get groomed into and trying to be, you know, they're just trying to make you know a something a living. A living something.

SPEAKER_05: 21:19

So let me get into it, okay?

SPEAKER_04: 21:21

Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 21:22

So a man named Carl Drew, who was from New Hampshire, and we just talked about that. He'll be one of the main people we talk about through this case. Carl was from a poor farming family in New Hampshire and was born in 1954. And Jesse and I saw it's still very farming today. Like we literally drove five minutes to Walmart. And but in that five minutes, we went from beach strip to tractors and silos. It was crazy. Like how how different the scenery changed in New Hampshire.

SPEAKER_04: 21:58

We took a lift, that was it. We're there.

SPEAKER_05: 22:01

Yeah. Now his father was an abusive alcoholic and liked to punish Carl in ways that some of us can't imagine.

SPEAKER_04: 22:11

But Lindsay, why can't you bring up a father that I can say faj?

SPEAKER_05: 22:15

You can't. Because, yeah, most of the time there's a lot of salad ingredients here, okay? His father beat him regularly and one time made him retrieve dead rats from the bottom of a well while he had Carl tied by the anchors, the anchors, the ankles, and lowered him into the well. He was also made to slaughter the farm animals, and this would make, and Carl was little when he was doing this, and this would make him physically ill. And I can attest to that. I've shared the story on an episode before where I watched, I didn't participate in the slaughtering, but I watched my uncle slaughter a pig and I puked my guts up.

SPEAKER_04: 22:56

Horrified. But to be tied by the ankles and dropped down into a well to a well to retrieve dead rats. You're done. You're done. You're fucked. Trauma. You're trauma ties from then on.

SPEAKER_05: 23:08

Then on top of it, you're slaughtering animals. And okay, so there was a pit on this farm that consisted of the discarded parts of slaughtered animals that Carl fell into after he had refused to slaughter and dismember a horse that had been burnt in a barn fire. So his father was so mad at his refusal that he cornered Carl into or towards the edge of this pit, and Carl fell in. So he fell into an entire pit of animal innards and carcasses.

SPEAKER_04: 23:42

Nowhere near as cool as the pit that we've seen from Parks and Wreck. I fell into the pit. The gut pit.

SPEAKER_05: 23:54

Thank you for that, because that's all I can think about.

SPEAKER_04: 23:57

Did you?

SPEAKER_05: 23:58

Yes. Oh I fell into the pit. He fell into the pit. We all fell in the pit. What? No. Into the pit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 24:14

No, like, okay, this is really horrific already. Right off. Like traumatizing.

SPEAKER_05: 24:22

Oh, Lindsay. Well, in 1968, when Carl was 14, he quit school and left home. So all that happened before the age of 14. So he drifted from town to town, surviving on the streets, and came to Fall River in the 70s. Now, while he was in Fall River, he got into some crime and he was convicted of robbery in the area and had to stay there as part of his parole agreement. So he was locked into Fall River. Well, after he got out, he got into the drug scene and would later become a pimp for sex workers.

SPEAKER_04: 24:59

No.

SPEAKER_05: 25:00

Carl was what we would call a biker. He drove a motorcycle, wore a leather jacket, and wore steel-toed combat boots, and joined a biker gang called the Sidewinders. And they were in affiliation with Hell's Angels.

SPEAKER_04: 25:14

So many. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 25:18

He had hate tattooed on his left hand and a red devil on his forearm with Satan's Avengers underneath. Now his area of business was on Bedford Street. Did we drive down that street? We did.

SPEAKER_04: 25:33

We got lost up there. We did.

SPEAKER_05: 25:36

We were just trying to find something to drink.

SPEAKER_04: 25:39

Like seltzer.

SPEAKER_05: 25:40

And I just want y'all, if y'all ever visit Fall River, you cannot buy anything alcoholic at A Bodega. You gotta go straight to the liquor store. So, um, and we did not know that. Yeah, we drove to how many? God, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_04: 25:55

It was 555, and I was like, what? I really couldn't. I couldn't.

SPEAKER_05: 26:01

Like I said, so his area was business of business was on Beverge Street, where he would connect John's with sex workers. He was a very violent pimp as well as a thief, and these actions would land him in jail often. Now he was very protective of his girls, but he was violent to them as well. So like they felt safe with him, but they were also terrified of him. It was it was fucking wild, wild feeling.

SPEAKER_04: 26:27

Which is no existence for any female human.

SPEAKER_05: 26:31

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04: 26:32

No existence to feel like you're you're having a come up and having to do that.

SPEAKER_05: 26:37

And this was just survival for them. Well, never never get it.

SPEAKER_04: 26:42

It was absolutely terrible in life. Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 26:45

In one instance, he threw a man down a flight of stairs that had been violent towards one of his girls. He was arrested. He escaped from the squad car and tried to make a run for the Canadian border through the blizzard of 78 on a snowmobile.

SPEAKER_04: 27:02

Not in 78, like in 78. I remember that blizzard. That was before I was born.

SPEAKER_05: 27:08

But he was still caught. And now that man, he later died in the hospital. But that man had been a drug addict. And the medical examiner couldn't say if he died from drugs or from the injuries that Carl had bestowed upon him. So Carl was free to go and went back to his life of being a pimp on Bedford Street. Carl was a hard ass. Carl was a hard ass. So in June of 1979, a sex worker named Karen Marson met up with him at a bar called the Penthouse with her friend Cookie, and Cookie's car had just been stolen. So Karen wanted to see if Carl could get the car back because, you know, he had connections with all the peeps that could possibly retrieve a stolen vehicle.

SPEAKER_03: 27:55

Lindsay, I feel like every one of these stories there's a cookie.

SPEAKER_05: 27:58

We have not had zero, we have not talked about one cookie yet.

SPEAKER_03: 28:02

Well, it comes to pimps and prostitutes, there's always a cookie.

SPEAKER_05: 28:05

Probably. Yes. So Cookie promised him$75 if he could find her car. And when he did, Carl decided that uh$75 wasn't gonna be enough. Not enough. He told Cookie that she needed to pay off her debt by working for him. And Cookie wasn't a sex worker, so she refused. She was like, no, fuck off. Here's$75, is what I got. Thank you for finding my car. But this is what I got. And then Carl was like, I will kill your children. What? If you don't work for me. Kill your children. So what else is Cookie gonna do?

SPEAKER_04: 28:46

You're fucking me up right now.

SPEAKER_05: 28:49

Now, in the world of sex work, Carl was he was King Penn, you know? He was the Bedford Street pimp. Like he was the fucker.

SPEAKER_03: 29:01

He was running it.

SPEAKER_05: 29:03

But there was a 17-year-old girl named Robin Murphy who would try and give him a run for his money. And I'm gonna tell you her name, her age over and over because it still blows my fucking mind. Okay. 17-year-old Robin Murphy. Now there's not uh there's not a whole lot of her backstory out there, but she was born in 1962. She grew up in Fall River with her mom and stepfather. She was super street smart, manipulative, and very violent. When Robin was only 11 years old, she had left home after an argument with her mother and was picked up by an older man named Andy Maltese. It's either Maltese or Maltese.

SPEAKER_04: 29:52

One of the two. Robin knew the game before the game was even invented. Literally. She knew the game.

SPEAKER_05: 29:57

Now Andy was a drug addict. He was a pedophile, he was a rapist, and he was a statomaco masochist. And he also said that he was a worshiper of Satan. Oh, here we go. He drove Robin out to uh the Freetown Fall River State Forest. He raped her and then took her home. He would continue to pick her up from school in the afternoons to take her to the same spot, give her drugs, rape her, and just it was just a cycle. It just kept happening. So Andy Maltese just groomed Robin into the person that she would later become. I mean, honestly, fuck Andy. We're gonna say it right off the rip. Fuck Andy. Fuck Andy.

SPEAKER_04: 30:48

Fuck Andy all the way to the Andes. Starting at 11 years old. That's fucking horrific.

SPEAKER_05: 30:54

You got me planting. I know. Robert plant. It's not gonna get any better. So hold the plant's hand.

SPEAKER_03: 31:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 31:02

I'm on the plant.

SPEAKER_05: 31:03

Now Andy convinced her, as many abusers do, that if she told anyone, she would be the one to get in trouble. No. Now this would later on cause a lot of mental health problems with Robin. She would have failed relationships with men and women, all while Andy continued to abuse her. And Andy would also convince her to worship Satan, just like him. So we have talked in the past about the Church of Satan. This is different than devil worship. So the Church of Satan is basically a mockery to Christianity, where they are just you, they just worship oneself. They're just selfish. They're like, treat yourself. You have talked about parks and recs. So we want to. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 31:54

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05: 31:54

Yeah. Wow. So Church of Satan or a Satanist is just a selfish human being that worships themselves. They care about them. They don't believe in God. They don't believe in the devil. They don't believe in any spiritual entity. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 32:10

Whatever that that is glorifying to their self as far as anything. I mean, now the devil talking about that.

SPEAKER_05: 32:18

Right. Now, devil worship, on the other hand, is so think about when you go to church and you worship God. This is what a devil worshiper does. They instead of worshiping God, they worship devil. They pray to him, they um speak to him, like just like if you were in a prayer talking to God and a devil worshiper's mind, or in their religion, they pray to Satan.

SPEAKER_04: 32:49

Which on both accounts is not healthy. And either way, you're either selfish or you're you're supporting something that's negative to me.

SPEAKER_05: 32:59

Well, if and I I encourage our listeners, because I've already got a long script here, but I encourage y'all to look up the history of devil worship and see how similar it is to Christianity. Just the opposite. It's similar, but different entities. It's it's it's wild, okay? Okay. I did I did a lot of research on it, but that could be a whole different episode.

SPEAKER_04: 33:23

I don't know. I mean, I'm just I just feel like what I said. I just feel like that.

SPEAKER_05: 33:27

Now it wouldn't be hard for Andy to convince her to worship Satan because Robin had already shown interest in the occult. So she was already on that cusp already, which is still wild to me too, because like I heard in a couple, I always listen to a couple of different podcasters' point of views of the same subject. And uh the red-handed ladies, like uh Hannah said that everybody fucks with the occult in their teen years, but I didn't. So I'm like, is that why I'm interested in it now?

SPEAKER_04: 34:04

Yeah, well, you you couldn't. You couldn't. I wasn't allowed to.

SPEAKER_05: 34:08

So, but is that why I'm interested in it now? Because I wasn't, do we all have an occult phase?

SPEAKER_04: 34:13

Like, you know, I feel like everybody, you didn't have that, Lindsay. I feel like everybody really had that um rebellion. You you want you want to come up with something.

SPEAKER_05: 34:24

And I don't even feel like it's in a rebellion. I think it's just I just want to explore everything else there is to believe in.

SPEAKER_04: 34:32

Right. That's because I want understanding. That's your adult perspective, right? And well, well, as a kid, where I went through that, and so many people did, you want to have that rebellious, you want to try something different. You want to be like, I want to break away from everything that's been pushed on me and be independent.

SPEAKER_05: 34:51

And that and that makes sense because as my, you know, I I wasn't allowed to do things as a kid, so and I don't even call it a rebellion now. Now I'm just able to be who I am.

SPEAKER_04: 35:02

Yeah, but you were raising fear and everything else. Right. I was raised, yeah. You didn't strive over to that to that area just to be uh the exploration of I want to see what's on this other side to see why the other side, you know?

SPEAKER_05: 35:17

A lot of that fear was lifted when I did realize that most of everything I was ever taught was a lie or a fabrication. So I'm like, oh, huh. Well, let me, I want to go, I want to go study this over here, and I want to look, I want to deep dive into this.

SPEAKER_04: 35:32

Yeah, which is interesting to me because you're discovering all that as an adult, where a lot of kids did all that as you know, teenagers or whatever. So it's crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 35:46

Now, uh Robin would later find that Satanism was a way to control people with fear of Satan's wrath. So she would use it as like a controlling tactic as well. Robin was a mother. I mean, Robin was I ain't never seen no teenager like Robin so far in anything that we've talked about. So Robin was feared in school, but she was very highly intelligent, which made her able to be like a really big bully at the same time. And she showed zero remorse for any actions, for any bad actions. Like, she's like, I don't give a fuck. Robin did not give a fuck. She was a really good liar too. And I need all of our listeners and you to hang on to that fact as I tell the rest of the story.

SPEAKER_04: 36:34

I feel like she's gonna push whatever that is part of her come-up.

SPEAKER_05: 36:38

Yes. So Robin would quit school really early on, and she became a sex worker herself on Bedford Street, but she did not work for Carl. Uh, she did sex work like on her own. She was her own agent, she was her own pimp. Independent. She was independent, and uh she was too, she was too smart for a pimp. Now, so that made Carl not like her at all. No, she's competition. And I'm gonna say it again, and the I'm gonna say it more times. She's 17 years old. Okay. So before she had moved out of her mother's house, her mom had sent her to a doctor for mental health testing. And Robin was so good at lying and manipulation that the doctor thought that she would lie, that she had lied on her tests because she didn't want to be diagnosed with anything. Uh, but it was believed that she had antisocial personality disorder. And I did not elaborate on that, but you guys have Google. Y'all know what, y'all know what's up. Google what that is. So in 1979, Robin was living in a housing project called Harbor Terrace. And she was in a relationship with a woman named Sunny Sparta, who had been a sex worker in the past, but now was like a mother to the other girls in the industry. She was kind of, she was kind of like the madam. Now, Sonny was also a worshiper of the devil. She would uh she would also spend some time, or Robin would also spend time with Karen Marsden, who we talked about just a minute ago, intimately. But Karen was scared of Robin. Like she had, she was intimate with her, but she was scared of her all at the same time. And Karen was a little older.

SPEAKER_04: 38:20

You know, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 38:21

Yeah. Oh, like I said, and Karen was a little older. She was around 20 years old, and she had gotten into sex work due to her heroin addiction, which is so sad.

SPEAKER_02: 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 38:31

And she had a son who was in foster care and she lived with her grandmother. That was Karen. Now, despite Robin and Carl hating each other, they were part of the area's satanic cult. This cult was known in the area by everyone, including the police. This cult had anywhere from 15 to 25 members, and their meeting place during like summer and stuff was in the forest, where they would sacrifice animals such as goats or cats on an altar and they would speak in tongues.

SPEAKER_04: 39:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 39:04

Just like a Pentecostal.

SPEAKER_04: 39:06

Oh, it's unhealthy either way.

SPEAKER_05: 39:07

Yes. Now they would pour blood of the animal on uh a chosen member's head. Now, sometimes this was on a member who wanted it, and sometimes it was served as a punishment. When it was cold, they would meet in Sunny Sparta's apartment and try to summon the devil through chanting and prayer. Very similar to praying to God. I mean, it really is. It's like it's chilling to me how similar.

SPEAKER_04: 39:38

Yeah, I mean, the blood of Christ and things, you know, but like, okay, on either entity, how do you think?

SPEAKER_05: 39:45

Well, and there was in the Bible, you read about animal sacrifices for God.

SPEAKER_04: 39:48

And they stripped away so many books that that that were that crazy religion part of it.

SPEAKER_05: 39:54

I mean, I don't was it Genesis where Abraham was going to have to sacrifice his own kid?

SPEAKER_04: 40:00

That's just what they let us know. I mean, there's so many other by other books in that that have been stripped away.

SPEAKER_05: 40:07

And the practice of just like Cain and Abel.

SPEAKER_04: 40:11

All together, though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 40:12

Cain sacrificed a lamb where Abel uh uh Abel sacrificed vegetables and crops.

SPEAKER_04: 40:18

And the whole handmaid's tail thing. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05: 40:23

I'm just saying. Watch handmaid's tail, period.

SPEAKER_04: 40:25

No, there's nothing you can do on either side that actually makes anything fucking valuable. There's nothing that actually becomes anything as far as religious real thing. You're just doing a bunch of bullshit things that never become into anything that's worth it to worship to me.

SPEAKER_05: 40:45

Well, like I said, the uh the members said it was just like church, only their God was the devil. When a group member was disrespected by another, the rest of the group would punish the one who had disrespected. On the morning of October 12th, 1979, two joggers found the body of a teenage sex worker named Doreen Levesque. And she was under the bleachers of a vocational high school in the area. Her death had been caused by stoning. Fuck. And she had been stabbed in the back of the head post-mortem. She also had a baseball bat inside of her.

SPEAKER_04: 41:31

Inside of her, Lindsay. I'm fucking going to the plant. You're fucking with me right now. You're fucking fucked Lindsay.

SPEAKER_05: 41:38

Well, investigators assumed that it was a sex crime or a revenge killing due to the brutality of the crime. This murder seemed to have been committed ritualistically and by more than one person. Well, in November of 79, Andy Maltese called the police and said that he had some information on Doreen's murder. This is Andy is the one that groomed Robin. Okay. If you need any recap, let me know because there are a lot of players.

SPEAKER_04: 42:09

Well, he's like Fall Rivers had a fucking nuff to begin with. Right.

SPEAKER_05: 42:13

Fuck. Now he said, so Andy said that he didn't know anything personally, but that Robin and Karen did. So he calls up the police. He's like, I got information. Now I don't know anything personally, but you need to go talk to Robin Murphy and Karen Marston. So he said that him and his ex-girlfriend Barbara had been in the cult, but he had since left and he no longer worships Satan. He now found Jesus. Jesus. And God talked to him all the time. Jesus and prostitutes. So he told them also that he was a psychic, which is crazy to me because my church background told me that psych psychic abilities was devil. So it's it's so because we've talked about that quite a few times now.

SPEAKER_04: 43:08

Does that work? I mean, I like that.

SPEAKER_05: 43:10

Like Ed and Lorraine Lauren. Ed and Lorraine Warren was using psychic and clairvoyant abilities. Wait a minute. And it was tied with Christianity. You're contradicting your contradictions. Right. So Andy tricked Robin and Karen into meeting with detective Paul Fitzgerald. And this scared the shit out of Karen. And she just kind of like blurted out, Carl Drew did it.

SPEAKER_04: 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 43:41

And Karen told Paul Fitzgerald that Carl was literally the devil himself. And if she were to turn up dead, it was Carl.

SPEAKER_04: 43:50

Well, isn't isn't a part of the devil being deceived, deceiving? You know, you're gonna tell lies and you're gonna do your things. That's part of the devil.

SPEAKER_05: 44:00

Yes. Now Robin would tell Fitzgerald that she knew nothing. This was all Karen. Now Fitzgerald knew that Carl had been accused of murder before, and that he was probably the one who had started the Bedford Street satanic cult. But he needed more evidence, of course. Andy would continue to call Fitzgerald to check on the case and talk about his new Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And he would also ask about his ex-girlfriend, Barbara, who had been missing for a while. And Andy reported her missing, even though she was dating another guy. I feel like I'm tracking right here. You're tracking? Okay, I'm so excited. Woo! All right. It's gonna get bad again. You ready? No, but yeah, fine. Hold the plant's hand. I'm gonna take a sip. Okay, but Lindsay, but Lindsay. Okay. The day quill we had to take off mic got stuck in my throat. So on January 26th, a hunter was out running his dogs, and he found the decomposed body of a woman behind a printing factory. Her hands were tied, and she had been stoned, just like Doreen. And uh, you know, like I said, she had been dead for some time. She was decomposing, and she had also been sexually assaulted. This woman would be Andy Maltese's ex-girlfriend, Barbara Raposa. Oh. She was only 19 years old. And when you think of a Barbara, you think of like a 65-year-old woman, but this Barbara was 19 years old. This is 70s. Exactly. So the barbaras were in their teenagers. They were teenagers. Yes. Now Andy would be the first to be questioned since he was the ex and had reported her missing, but they let him go. Next, they questioned Barbara's current boyfriend, David Cohen. Now he said the last time he had seen her, they had dinner and then she went to go to work. If you catch my drift, and he never saw her again. Now, why didn't he report her missing? Why did the ex Andy report her missing?

SPEAKER_04: 46:14

Nobody really pursued any of that shit.

SPEAKER_05: 46:17

Right. Because unfortunately, let's bring awareness to this too. Sex workers go unnoticed. So now there are two young sex workers dead, and they have both been stoned to death. Damn. On February 5th, 1980, Andy called Fitzgerald up and said, Hey, I know how Barbara died. It was revealed to me in a dream. He said that in his psychic dream, he was floating above Barbara and watched as a big man in a leather jacket beat Barbara with a rock. And she had been screaming and calling his name to come help her. And when detectives showed him a picture of the field behind the printing factory, he pointed to the exact spot where her body had been found. And then he said, Oh, wait, it wasn't a rock. It was a concrete cinder block. Now the murder weapon had been a concrete cinder block, and that information had not been released. So this seemed more of a confession than a dream.

SPEAKER_02: 47:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 47:24

And Andy was arrested two days later for the murder of Barbara Raposa, and investigators hope to tie Doreen Levesque to him as well. But it wasn't that simple. Well, on February 8th, still we're in, still in 1980. So that's three days later, right? Yes. So that was fifth. Now we're on the eighth. Karen Marsden called Alan Sylvia, another detective who was on the case, and said Robin and Carl had taken her and another sex worker named Carol Fletcher out to a clearing deep in the woods. There was a pond, a stone structure with trees that had pentagrams carved into them. And this was the altar where animals had been sacrificed. But Robin said that every month during the full moon, they did a human sacrifice. Fuck. This ritual would consist of sex, drugs, chanting, trying to summon the devil. They're like, here's a soul for you. Sir. Whatever. You know. So Robin would tell the women that if they talk to the police, Carl Drew would kill them by injecting them with battery acid and sacrifice their souls to the devil. Once again, Robin Murphy is 17 years old. Oh fuck's sake. Oh my god. I cannot with Robin Murphy. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 48:55

You can't. Well, Robin Murphy.

SPEAKER_05: 48:57

Murphy. You can't. Now, to Detective Alan Sylvia, he was like, this is a little out there, girl, you know? But it got him thinking that maybe he should look into Robin a little more. Karen Marsden was terrified for her and her family's life and asked Alan to please drop her off as St. Mary's Cathedral to stay there for safety. I guess they had like, you could go and stay at the church for refuge. Yeah, sanctuary. Right. So the next day, on February 9th, Robin Murphy called the police and said, I want to get something off my chest. Can you come over to Sonny's? So they went to Sonny Sparta's house and or her apartment, and they found uh Robin who had been drinking and getting high. And she was sitting under this very large painting of Satan, and that was what was used for an altar for their cult meetings. Remember how I told you they went to the woods in the summer. They met at Sonny's in the winter.

SPEAKER_04: 50:03

And I'm going to fucking horrific, Lindsay. So horrific. I'm going to flip the page. You can flip it. Okay. Turn the page. Turn the page. Fuck, Lindsay. Every time you turn the page, I get more on edge. I'm already falling off the seat here.

SPEAKER_05: 50:21

She tells detectives that Andy had indeed killed Barbara. And she was there when he did it. On November 7th, Robin had asked Andy for a ride to her mother's house. And uh there was a she was at a restaurant. And uh when he picked her up, he said, Well, I gotta pick up Barbara as well. Robin says on the way to pick up Barbara, Andy flat out says that he's gonna kill Barbara because she has been dating David Cohen. That was the newer boyfriend. Talk about him. The one who did not report her missing after she went missing. You know what I mean? Andy reported her missing, but not David. Everybody's flipping shit. Right. Everywhere. But Robin, you know, she was like, whatever, Andy, you ain't gonna kill nobody. And uh when they pick up Barbara, apparently she wasn't happy about Robin being in the car. And the two got into a app like a flat out fist fight. And this was after they smoked a joint. Like, what?

SPEAKER_04: 51:25

Yeah, wasn't good shit.

SPEAKER_05: 51:27

And I guess not because when when we when I partake, I ain't fighting nobody. I'm gonna love you. And I'm gonna talk your ear off. It wasn't that good. And I'm gonna eat some snacks, but I ain't fist fighting shit.

SPEAKER_04: 51:40

You gotta get some of that good.

SPEAKER_05: 51:42

But also, I'm not 17 years old, but I wasn't like that then. Like I partook then and I didn't want to fight nobody. I'm just not fighting.

SPEAKER_04: 51:48

There's a lot of fucking turmoil going on.

SPEAKER_05: 51:50

There's a whole lot of turmoil. Yeah. I was not in this lifestyle whatsoever.

SPEAKER_04: 51:53

It wasn't fucking sustained, fucking what the fuck was really fucking fucking going on. Fuck.

SPEAKER_05: 51:59

So while they were fighting, Andy pulls behind the printing factory and he tells Barbara to get out. Now Robin says that Barbara then pulled down her pants and Andy grabbed sex toys out of the trunk. Robin says she just hung out in the car while they did the deed. And then afterwards, they began to argue. And then she said that's when Andy beat Barbara with what she thought was a rock. And he got in the car and drove Robin home. Now she said she had waited so long to tell anyone out of fear of Andy. But now that he was in jail, she was ready to talk. But she was still terrified for her safety, so she's like, I need some protection. So now she's the star witness in this murder case. So they put Robin in protective custody. She was put up in a hotel room and she was checked on twice a day. Every day. That same day that she got put in, that she, you know, told the story and got put into protective custody, Karen Marsden's grandmother reported her missing. So we've got Doreen, we've got Barbara, they're both dead. And now we have Karen Marsden, who has been a key player in all of this. She's missing. Now Karen had told the police, if you remember, that if anything happened to her, Carl Drew did it. Carl did it. But they also knew that she was in a relationship with Robin. So Carl was brought in for questioning. He said that the last time he had seen Karen was after Alan Sylvia had dropped her off at the church. And he said that she was in a car with Robin and Carla Fletcher. Or Carol Fletcher, excuse me. So detectives talked to Karen's friends and other sex workers and Sonny Sparta. On February 16th, Detective Alan Sylvia and Paul Carey decided they would attend one of the cult services at Sonny Sparta's house. Carl Drew was there, and so was Robin. After the service was over, Alan said that he heard Robin speak in a disembodied voice and say, Satan will have its toll. Quit, Lindsay. Sorry. Stop it. That's just how I imagine it was. Because they said it was very deep, very manlike. It was crazy. It's scared me over here. Again, 17 years old. Fuck 17. He's only 17. 17. They continue to interview witnesses that may help them find Karen Marston. Some pointed towards Carl, others pointed towards Robin. And Sonny and another sex worker told detectives that Robin had told them that she actually killed Karen. So there's just so much going on here. Now they already knew that she had been at the killing of Barbara. And another witness said that she was also present for the killing of Doreen Levesque. So detectives decided to send Robin to Texas for quote unquote protection. But it was actually to keep her away from any of the other witnesses that would help them figure out what happened to Karen. Because they felt like if she was a part of this, she's going to manipulate these other people into saying that she wasn't. On April 13th, Karen Marson was found in Westport. Her skull had been crushed. And clumps of her hair was pulled out by the roots and just kind of scattered everywhere. Pieces of her clothes and three gutted cats had been lined up beside her. And the innards of the cats were scattered over stones formed into a triangle.

SPEAKER_04: 56:14

Lindsay!

SPEAKER_05: 56:16

What the fucking cats? I told you they sacrificed animals. But Lindsay! Now, Detective Allen recognized the clothing as the same clothes she was wearing when he had dropped her off at the church. And skull x-rays confirmed that it was her because she was unrecognizable, like as far as her face went. Like pieces of her jaw were missing.

SPEAKER_03: 56:41

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_05: 56:42

Yeah. Are not missing. I'm sorry. They were broken off. Like they were found, but they were not attached to her skull. Yeah, she was mutilated.

SPEAKER_00: 56:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 56:51

Fuck.

SPEAKER_05: 56:52

So detectives, they have Sonny Sparta call Robin over in Witness Protection on a recorded line. And she admits to killing Karen Marsden. Again. How old was she?

SPEAKER_03: 57:10

Seven.

SPEAKER_05: 57:12

Now with the taped confession, Robin was like, well, fuck. But uh can I make a deal? I have information on Doreen Levesque. So Robin says that her, Carl, a man named Willie Smith, had all been in Carl's car together when they picked up Doreen. This was before Doreen, she was the first one that was found. So, like Robin, Doreen also hadn't been working for a pimp. And Carl was trying to get her to work for him. Doreen was like, No, I'm good. And this pissed Carl off, and he told her that Satan always got what was due to him. And then he proceeded to slap her. Her mouth was now bleeding and she was crying. So Carl was like, well, now what do you say? And she still said, No, I'm not gonna work for you. So this was when Carl would pull up behind the bleachers of the vacational high school. Robin says that Carl and Willie took Doreen away and then came back 10 minutes later without her, but had her shoes in hand. And this was the satanic ritual part of it. Um, so you keep something that belongs to the person that you were sacrificing to Satan. You keep something that's on them.

SPEAKER_04: 58:44

Yeah, I mean, I feel like all this is just charismatic young kids.

SPEAKER_05: 58:49

All these people are very young.

SPEAKER_04: 58:51

That are trying to push it very for a come up. Right. I feel like they're just gonna push it to the to the whatever end and use whatever they can to make it happen.

SPEAKER_05: 59:02

Robin then proceeds to tell them in detail what happened the night Karen was killed. She said that her and Karen went to go see her son, Karen's son, who was in foster care, and then Carol Fletcher came and picked them up. Then they went to find Carl's uh Carol's boyfriend, which was another Carl named Carl Davis, and uh he was also a pimp, and he happened to be hanging out with Carl Drew. So we got Carl and Carl hanging out. They all they all get in the car. There's too many pimps here. Yeah, there well, we got two pimps and three sex workers in the same car. Here we go. They uh they get in the car, and um Carol began to drive over to Westport. They drive down a dark road. Carol then turns off the ignition, and Carl Drew tells Karen your time has come. You talk to the police, and I told you not to. So Karen actually tells him that she's not afraid of him and that God will save her, to which he responded, God can't help you. The only one here is Satan. So Robin says that Carl made her, made her, as in Robin, drag Karen by her hair and um hit her until she drew blood, and then dragged her by her neck to a clearing. And then the whole crew, everybody in the car, stone her until she was barely conscious. Then Carl Drew, remember there's two Carls, so Carl Drew cut off her hand. And Robin says that Carl ordered her to sexually assault Karen. So they beat her, they've stoned her, they've cut off her hand. Now he's have uh Carl is having Robin sexually assault her. And then Carl cut her throat and removed her head.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:13

Which goes back to what I was just saying about the fucking religion thing of Satanism. It's horrific. I mean you you're you're I'm not even done. But you're you're you're trying to use that as something for your for murder. For murder. And you're just using it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:33

For the for the power play in the underworld of sex trafficking, basic basically, yeah. So then he told Robin to pull out her hair, and they literally played soccer with her head. What? They kicked it around. Lindsay. Carl then carved a large X on Karen's torso while chanting and offering her soul to Satan. He took some of Karen's blood and put a bloody X on Robin's forehead and said, Now, you're one of us. After this, after this confession, this is Robin's story to the detectives, okay? All of this that I just read. So Carl was arrested, and since he was locked up, or after he got locked up, more witnesses would come forward with information because they were no longer scared of him. Like he was a very intimidating presence on Bedford Street. He was King Penn, like I said. Well, Andy Maltese would be sentenced to life after Robin said that he killed Barbara. Now he died in prison not too long after in 1987 after suffering from several strokes. Because he was he was already an older man. He was a nasty, dirty old man. Carl Drew, he swore up and down that he was never a Satanist and knew nothing about cult rituals. But due to Robin's story and saying that he killed Doreen Levesque, he was also given a life sentence. Now Willie Smith, who was in the car that night with Doreen, he would never be charged with anything because Robin decided to change her story right before his trial and said, you know what? I actually wasn't there. Karen was. Karen was. And this was Karen's version of the story.

unknown: 1:03:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:34

Who and Karen is dead. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:39

It don't work.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:40

Now, so Willie, he he was able to go, he was able to go free. Now Robin went to prison as well for participation in the murders. But guess what? After Andy, Carl, and Robin all get locked up, the satanic cult just disappeared. Poof, gone. Out of Fall River, bye. Bye. Right. Now in 2004, Robin was up for parole. And she tells the parole board that she made everything up. That it was Karen Marsden who had told her that Carl Drew had killed some people. And Robin used this to fabricate an entire story to get him off the streets. Because they were in competition.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:28

That sounds fucking accurate.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:30

Now, Robin, after saying that, was granted parole, but Carl remains in prison and has exhausted all of his appeals.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:40

Yeah, you're done. You're done.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:42

Now, uh, Robin, she went back to prison not too long after for violating parole by being associated with an ex-convict and was denied any other chance at parole. So Andy died, Carl and Robin still in prison. Well to this day. Now I don't know. I I I like I said, I okay, so there is a docuseries about this and all this events where I got my information from on MGM Plus, and it's called Fall River. And uh it's wild. It's wild. Like, because the person that Carl Drew is now, it's hard to imagine him being the person that he was back then.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:28

Well, like he's you know, they're master manipulators. Either way, they're relators, whatever narrative they can. Street smart, religion, whatever they can. They're gonna bring up the most horrific things and they're gonna bring up the best amazing things at the same time.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:44

And there's a whole lot of uh Massachusetts accent on there. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:52

Oh, wicked good.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:54

Wicked good. Yeah, yeah. So I had this on, like I said, I had this on my list for some time, but I kind of mad at myself that I didn't cover this while we were there, too. Like we could have.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:08

Fall River's had enough though, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:10

Oh yeah, Fall River. Fuck. We love you. You're beautiful, Area. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:15

Yes, but horrific moments in time, in history. I mean, you know, we could probably find so much more, but like whoa! To just intelligent people using whatever narrative they can in religion, in humanity, just to justify. They were all young.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:37

I think they were just all playing at some horrificness. I mean, honestly. And they were trying to make money, and and you know, so you got Carl and you got Rob, and they're manipulative, and then you got Andy, he's a dirty old man who's been at this for a long time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:54

Yeah, he knows the game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:57

And then you got all these poor sex workers who are just trying to survive.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:01

That's where that's where it comes in, like, okay, you got an older head that's just like, I'm gonna teach you how to do all these so you can make money.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:07

Carl was in his 20s, yeah. So he wasn't that old either.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:10

Yeah, but somebody there was there was older folks somewhere. We don't know about him yet. We don't know about him. Lindsay. We don't know about him, but there's fucking people plugging in that to build all that. There's there's other there's other fuckeries in the fuckery, and they taught all them to use all this. You know, they're young, impressionable people. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:35

These are three absolutely horrific murders.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:39

Murders, fucking full on.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:41

And we don't really know who did them. I do believe that I mean, I really believe that Andy killed Barbara because he had the supposed dream. Then he now was supposedly found Jesus and had a Bible every time he entered the police precinct or talked to the police, he had a Bible in hand.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:03

Yeah, and with a rock that turned into a center block, right? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:08

And he was supposedly hovering over her, and she was calling his name, even though she was dating a whole different dude, which at the same time, David, why the fuck didn't you report her missing? Why did Andy? You know why? Because Andy fucking killed her.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:23

Yeah, my dream has been a confession.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:25

Right. But if Robin Murphy, and I'm sorry to be insufferable as a 17-year-old, did kill these other two girls in that horrific manner, that's a scary human being. Scary. Scary as fuck.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:43

And they were scared of her. In in the middle of all this that's just trying to push something horrific, I feel like.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:50

So in the documentary, they literally talk about like grown men were afraid of Robin Murphy as a 17-year-old. She would fight grown men, which made me think of your sister.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:02

Yeah, no, balls to the walls, right?

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:04

Balls to the walls, which literally made me think of Shelly because I've I you have told me about it. I've seen Shelly drop a dude.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:13

Oh 250-pound man right on the sidewalk, right on his fucking head.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:19

And she was a cute chick, man. You have to watch the documentary. You got and I want, if we can, if you would be interested in watching this. Let's do this. Because I did sign up for the MGM free trial, so we might as well take advantage.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:33

We're down. We're down. We're finna watch that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:35

And that we we can we can hear that fucking accent that we like too. Yeah. Wicked. Fall river. Fall river. Full river. So this is kind of unsolved, really, because but we know. There's fingers pointing. Yeah, I do believe 100% believe that Andy was responsible for Barbara, but the other two, who knows? So that wraps up my coverage on the Fall River cult. Fall River? Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:05

Well, fucking I thank you for sharing so many things. Horrific things on Fall River. And we're back to Fall River! Holy shit. I was in the plant most of the time. And I want to go back to the plant. Can I go back to the plant?

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:26

I want to go back to she's thriving over there, man. She's growing tall. Yes. Yeah. She's she's like starting to get into the blinds and stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:33

She's hanging out. I'm ready for some like more bloomage. I know. Every once in a while it'll come up with this crazy cool bloom. It's beautiful. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:41

And it fell off and now it's in the pot. But I'm like, okay, maybe some seedlings.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:46

It'll make you want it to grow.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:48

We'll flower into the pot. Yeah. I haven't not I'm not quite a green thumb. I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:55

Yeah. Kind of a like off opaque, like bland kind of green. Fucking not really, not really green, but you know, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:03

Yeah, I'm a light, I'm a light green thumb.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:05

No tom green over here, but yeah. Whatever green you want to be.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:09

Yes, the lightest shade of green thumb. A lightest shade of green. I have revived snake plant. I have spliced a wandering Jew. I have kept my Christmas cactus alive. I've kept these peace lilies alive. I've kept some succulents alive. I got a whole succulent garden going over here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:29

These are blooming over here. Yeah. You want to put rocks in your succulents.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:32

Yes, I need to put rocks in the succulents when they get a little, a little taller.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:36

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:37

Because they wish they was a baller.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:39

So that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:41

The whole thing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:42

I mean, that was a lot.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:43

That was a lot. A lot of information. A lot of youngins that have power and little baby.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:49

I mean, I'm sorry, but under 25, I consider you a baby.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:53

Yeah, that much Moxie. If we can say Moxie, if you know what Moxie is. What's that? Like the charisma of pushing a whole fucking thing toward a come up. Like, I got the balls to be like, I want to push this no matter what it is.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:10

Well, you had a power struggle between Carl and Robin. Yes. Then you got this old dirty man. Old dirty nasty.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:17

Old dirty bastard.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:18

Pedophilic man. Yes. Um ODB. And they were all key players here.

unknown: 1:12:25

Ugh.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:26

But with all that being said, what band are you going to plug today for us, Jesse?

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:31

I have a really cool band from Canadia.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:34

Canadia?

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:35

Canadia. Canada.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:37

Send me some maple syrup.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:38

I know. I just heard that you know there might be some things moving from Canada over here. I like Crown Royal. Oh, okay. But I I I love Crown Royal. I know. I love Canadian whiskey. It's one of my favorites. One of my fucking favorites. This is for all the emptiness from Canada.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:58

That's the name of the band? Yes. From all is it for all the emptiness. Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and follow them.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:04

Yes. And this song is called Sell the Sins, Lindsay. Isn't that fucking? I did not plan it, I swear.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:13

I know you didn't. Because you had no, I didn't what what so Jesse will print out my script and usually he'll see the title, but I just put initials for the title on this one so he wouldn't know at all.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:23

So yes, sell the sins from for all the emptiness. Check this shit out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:31

Sell the same of the sins. Convince them that they are old. Make them one with the guy. Convince the world.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:08

Lindsay. That was so fun.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:13

Wasn't it? It was just joking. Amazing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:17

They reminded me of Electric Cowboy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:19

Yeah. It was just like Pit Shifter or Prodigy or something like that. That's what I'm saying. Electric Cowboy was what I thought of. Yes. Really cool band. I love it. Really cool music. Either way, I love it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:34

I follow, I went ahead and followed them on Spotify because that's the platform that I use. So on uh Instagram for all the emptiness, um, they are described as a Canadian dark wave music. And that's that's it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:52

I love it. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:54

Coming back. Love it. We had a blast with them. We were joking and joking and jugging and joking.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:59

And I want to watch some of their videos just because I want to see like their mannerisms in their videos and stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:04

Yeah. It's so fun. Love it. Love the sound. Support them. Love it. Support it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:10

Yeah, support the bands. Um, and if you want to support us, it doesn't cost you a thing. All you need to do is like, subscribe, review, share, uh, comment. Give us, yeah, give us some uh feedback, some interaction. We totally appreciate that. So our next episode will air on Black Friday. So we want to go ahead and tell you happy Thanksgiving. Yeah. We hope if you don't eat turkey, if you don't eat ham, if you don't eat meat, enjoy whatever it is you're going to enjoy that day. If you don't celebrate Thanksgiving, we support that too. So whatever. Yes. Um, we're gonna have some turkey and some ham and some green bean castor, we're gonna do all the traditional shit. We're gonna give thanks. We're gonna give thanks to people that we need to thank. Yes, we're gonna have a little family day. And then by the episode by the time our next episode airs, Jesse and I will be Christmas shopping.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:15

Doing the things.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:16

It's gonna look a lot like Christmas. And we're gonna have um, we're gonna, we're about to enjoy some Christmas tree little Debbie cakes. Ooh. But before that, I'm gonna take a sip of those drinks.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:33

We're gonna do the things. I want you to see that on our socials. I think we need to do that on our socials.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:39

Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. We're gonna we're gonna recap and recap, and we're gonna have another episode out, and then we will be taking a break because I do have a very busy week um during the Thanksgiving time period. Do you know? I do. We do. We both but we will uh we'll recap the following, the next episode that's gonna come out after this one. And we'll we'll recap our little Black Friday day. And we're gonna go watch Wicked that day. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe all the fun stuff. Maybe go to Chili's and get some wicked margaritas. Wicked Markets. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what the day holds, but we'll recap it. We will let you know what happened and we'll give you our little review on Wicked.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:27

Yeah. By the way, like Wicked is something they use a lot in the New England area, which is wicked. Wicked crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:35

Wicked crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:36

Wicked crazy stories, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:38

I know. So I hope you enjoyed this. And uh, we forgot to talk about this at the beginning, but if this is your first time, welcome. Yeah. What we do is we have a couple of drinks, we talk about true crime. Jesse doesn't know about it. Yeah. Jesse is always oblivious, and he plugs an incredible band at the end that we do have permission to play. And uh that's what we do. That's pretty much it. We're gonna wrap it up. Make sure you follow us. Like, subscribe, drink about something outside. Follow us on our personals, Jesse Stanba, Lindsay Stanby.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:14

All the stuff, dude. We want to see you on everything.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:18

Come and share and do the things. Follow us on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:22

Yes. Hit us up. We love you so much. Thank you for continuing to listen to our people that have been here since the beginning.

unknown: 1:21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:30

We're so grateful. We love you.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:32

I send some stuff to our number one fan.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:34

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:36

So hopefully she gets that soon. And that's awesome. Thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:41

And I mean, like, so much. Thank you for all the support. We could not be more grateful for our little fun hobby here that we do eventually want to make a career out of.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:52

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna find another number one fan soon. And I'll send some stuff to you too. Yes. That's what I've been promising, and I've fulfilled that part. You sure have. Yeah, it's on the way. So keep on sharing. Keep on sharing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:22:06

So make sure you check out our recap of this episode on Wednesday and then a brand new episode next Friday, which will be Black Friday. Listen to us while you're shopping. And if you're not like physically shopping, if you're online and you're like transitioning your house into Christmas decor, plug us. Yeah. Put us in your headphones.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:26

We'll see you then, though. Thank you so much. We love you. Bye.