SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Hey Jesse! Hello Lindsay. And Jojo. Hello, Jo. Hi guys. She's in the house. Are you doing a vocal warm-up tonight? I am. Sounds like it. Because it's the holiday season. I don't know the rest of the song. I only know your version. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 0:29

Don't forget to sit on my clock. Should we come on the church? Yeah. Stop it. Here comes Santa Claus. Here comes Santa Claus. You know, when we do that, here comes Santa Claus song with Land. We were at a Universal Studios. Happy Friday, everybody. No, it wasn't. You're wrong. Where were we? SeaWorld?

SPEAKER_04: 0:52

Bush Gardens.

SPEAKER_00: 0:52

Bush Gardens.

SPEAKER_04: 0:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 0:53

We were in the bush. We were deep in the bush, and it was Christmas, okay? And I thought Silas was like two or three.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01

Five.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02

Five. Fuck, Lindsay, quit. You're making me feel a little old.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06

Oh, hold on. So it was our second round of annual passes to Bush Gardens. He was actually like eight. Sorry. It was our second round. Second round. Are you kidding? Get me and Landon had it out. Time is flying afterwards.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18

We had it out at has been here for the whole time.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21

The whole time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22

Here's what I'm gonna say real quick before I tell about here comes Santa Claus thong. JoJo invented Gen Z.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28

She did.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29

She did. And I just wanted to go ahead and elaborate on this a little bit. So in the dawn of Gen Z time. Back in the 20 teens. Me and Lindsay met.

SPEAKER_04: 1:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42

2012, even.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43

2012.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

There was this woman that was one of her best friends. Can you say that JoJo is your current best friend? Because I can say like Lindsay is my current wife. How would that make you feel?

SPEAKER_04: 1:57

Jojo is the my best friend that's sitting at this table right now.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00

Okay. So, anyhow.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04

Our listeners know I have three.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06

Lindsay's current attending best friend.

SPEAKER_05: 2:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12

On the podcast here. Um, she invented Gen Z. Yeah, she mixed our name together.

SPEAKER_04: 2:18

She invented Gen Z as our mixed name together, and she vented invented our house name, which is Gen Z Chesterton Fieldville. And both of those just came off the dome. They did just randomly. Because you're the coolest. You are literally all right. Thank you. I tried.

SPEAKER_00: 2:32

We all click. You know, me and Lindsay, Lindsay and I, we vibe with all of her best friends. Like, I'm not this weird turd in the punch bowl whenever we all hang out. I think it's always really fun and awesome to me.

SPEAKER_04: 2:45

So back to Yeah, Jesse's been at girls' nights.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48

Like I get invited.

SPEAKER_04: 2:50

Yeah, he's one of the girls. Yeah, definitely. Definitely one of the girls. Especially when he wants to wear your sweater. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In my fishnets. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:59

That's a damn thing. That's really a damn thing. That really does happen a lot. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04: 3:04

Christmas party, or at Christmas party, I invited Jojo as my plus one of the three. Four. Three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 3:12

She's my plus one. And she worked with me a couple of times over the years. Oh look, Lindsay, she wants to quit from here. And she has on this cool hot pink sweater that I also have a copy of because she got two on accident. I've done the same exact thing. Yeah. She got two of them. She brought me one. She walks in and Jesse's like, I want that sweater. And I'm like, I've got it.

SPEAKER_05: 3:36

You want to borrow it, girl? Like, right. It's like, yes, Jesse, we know you love to cross dress.

SPEAKER_00: 3:41

Like literally everything that Jojo had on was what Lindsay has in her closet. I did.

SPEAKER_05: 3:45

He wanted the fishnets and the sweater. And Lindsay's like, I have both of them. For some reason, I just felt like I would look good in it, too. Come on. You just might. Not as good as me and Lindsay, though.

SPEAKER_00: 3:56

No, no. So back to old Here Comes. Yes. Tell that story. So we're in the bush, right? In the bush of gardens.

SPEAKER_04: 4:04

It's a, it's, it is the Christmas season.

SPEAKER_00: 4:06

We're there for the holidays.

SPEAKER_04: 4:08

We're there for the ice skating show. We had a blast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:11

And so I wanted to see Santa. That's probably why I'm thinking, because like we were over there, and Silas wanted to see.

SPEAKER_04: 4:16

I want to see Santa.

SPEAKER_00: 4:17

Wasn't the cool like Ralph's. We did.

SPEAKER_04: 4:19

We did go see him. We finally got to see him.

SPEAKER_00: 4:21

I'm sure it was in line. And Landon's over there like acting like he's holding his cock and balls, and he's all like, so we got like really close and personal and did these little hand gestures the whole theme park. We sang here.

SPEAKER_04: 4:35

Yeah, ever since Landon became a teenager, him and Jesse have been very weird.

SPEAKER_00: 4:39

Vulgar and disgusting. So weird. That's what I get, you know, for being a parts guy around a bunch of shop.

SPEAKER_04: 4:44

I was about to say, I just want to let everybody know it is still definitely wholesome and father-son type shit.

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

Oh, it ain't just like disgusting to the point, but it's to the side. It's just goof booting. But happy Friday, everybody. We're here, and we hope you're here with us, and we're gonna have such a great time. I'm so excited to be here at this table, right?

SPEAKER_05: 5:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 5:04

So here we are. Oh, it is Friday. And we're gonna turn this shit up. I think my monitor wasn't that loud on that one. But I think the music was stupid loud. Was it loud with y'all? For me, it was like stupid loud.

SPEAKER_04: 5:41

And listeners, we love you. And y'all are just gonna have to enjoy a few more minutes of witty banter because this case that we're gonna be drinking about today is very rough. So I want to get the fun and good times locked in. So what are we drinking today? Jesse, we celebrated part one of your birthday tonight, where I made your lasagna dinner. Oh, so good. Bruschetta. And then Jojo, she uh came up with this recipe. So we've been planning this for a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00: 6:14

It's a whole hootamaroo.

SPEAKER_04: 6:16

It's um brie, walnuts, cranberries, and hot honey cooked on non-bread or nan, whatever you non-nan, one of the two.

SPEAKER_00: 6:28

Both of them.

SPEAKER_04: 6:29

And holy shit, that was good. Oh my god, it was so good. I could have ate all of them. And then later we have a German chocolate cheesecake for Jesse's birthday cake. Oh, I cannot wait to crack into that.

SPEAKER_00: 6:41

And we'll listen to Elvis the whole time.

SPEAKER_04: 6:43

Lindsay's cheesecakes are everything.

SPEAKER_00: 6:45

I'm gonna hold the physician.

SPEAKER_04: 6:47

So by the time this episode comes out, Jesse will have turned 45. So make sure that y'all wish him a happy birthday.

SPEAKER_00: 6:54

Yes, quatu is cratro. Quatro. I don't know how they say it in Spanish anymore. I don't either. I don't know how you say 44. I am 44 in all the languages.

SPEAKER_05: 7:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 7:04

Thank you, Lance.

SPEAKER_05: 7:05

I was trying to think about it because you know I took two years of Spanish, but I can't remember. I didn't take shit in Spanish.

SPEAKER_04: 7:11

But I've worked with some very amazing Spanish people, and they have taught me a few things, but I don't know how to say 44.

SPEAKER_00: 7:18

I'm on like that crown apple and whatever that energy drink you get from all of these is. So like a watermelon. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 7:24

The watermelon weight. Oh no, you I did you drink one of the prebiotic ones? Fuck I don't. Vitamin. Maybe. Yes, it was a prebiotic.

SPEAKER_05: 7:30

I saw him pour it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:32

Well, I feel healthy as fuck. You're gonna eat it for all the time. Lindsay did get me a bottle of bourbon. We'll talk about that later on because uh she went to the Bible on that one.

SPEAKER_04: 7:41

So I did. I went to the Bible to get some bourbon ideas, and uh we'll talk about that in our recap.

SPEAKER_00: 7:47

What do you want over there, Lynn? No, no, no. Let's go to Jojo's. Yeah, let me drink a Jojo.

SPEAKER_05: 7:51

I am drinking a good boy raspberry iced tea and lemonade vodka seltzer. Oh yeah. That's amazing. And it is very yummy, I have to say. See? Those are John Daly's. John Daly's offer with this. I thought it was like one of our regular seltzers we drink. I got this by accident, but it's surprisingly good.

SPEAKER_00: 8:10

We discovered that when we were in the Hamptons. What are you drinking, Miss Lynn?

SPEAKER_04: 8:15

I have a raspberry vista bay. And like I said, tonight has been part one of Jesse's birthday. Part two is tomorrow. He gets some, well, Saturday. He's gonna get a tattoo, and we're gonna do some things, hang out with the bestie.

SPEAKER_00: 8:32

Yeah, Lindsay's gonna bite me. I am right in my buttocks.

SPEAKER_04: 8:36

Are you gonna do your butt? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:38

No, Forest Gump style. Straight up. Just straight up something.

SPEAKER_04: 8:44

I signed on for the shoulder.

SPEAKER_00: 8:45

I didn't shave her nothing, Jesus. It's happening. Carol Baskins. No, it's gonna be on my shoulder to kind of match the other one that I got last year.

SPEAKER_04: 8:54

So I'm gonna bite Jesse on his shoulder and he's gonna get it tattooed. And then uh infection bite. Like it's gonna be like So by the time this comes out, that'll already have happened and it's healed and it's beautiful. We'll put it, we'll post a picture in stories.

SPEAKER_00: 9:05

Yeah, I think it'll do a whole talk like or um snap or something on the whole thing, so it's gonna be out there.

SPEAKER_04: 9:11

And then part three of birthday is uh Ginger and Trivium. Oh, yeah. At the Hard Rock Cafe. Exciting. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 9:20

You know, we've never been to that venue as many as a big thing.

SPEAKER_04: 9:22

Never been to that venue. I'm so excited because usually they play at the House of Blues. Uh-huh. Yeah, I remember y'all going to see them at the House of Blues. We have seen them at the House of Blues four times. Yeah. The first time we ever saw Ginger was at Sound Bar in Orlando. The max capacity was 200 people. It was so tiny. I got the I got to feel Tatiana Shamaluk breathe on me.

SPEAKER_00: 9:43

Shamalamaluk.

SPEAKER_04: 9:44

Shamalamaluk. Shamalamalam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:47

I got the hugger though.

SPEAKER_04: 9:49

Eita, I didn't well, I Eugene, Eugene from Ginger grabbed my cracked ass straight talk at that time cell phone and took a picture.

SPEAKER_05: 10:04

I remember you telling me you were so stoked about that. Like you were totally fangirling for like a whole week afterwards. I'm still fangirling.

SPEAKER_04: 10:11

It's been like eight years now.

SPEAKER_00: 10:13

It was good times, though. You know, and I think this video's a little bit smaller than Hob.

SPEAKER_04: 10:19

Well, they're not even the they're not the headliner. Travim's the headliner this time.

SPEAKER_00: 10:22

Which is fire too.

SPEAKER_04: 10:24

Yes. But I'm excited. I get to see. I get to see Ginger early. Like, yeah. If I want to go to take a nap, I'll have already seen Ginger and it's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 10:36

They only got one bar there, so we better tighten up. This is fucking fair. I am having such a great time at this table. What the fuck are we drinking? No, you got you got my own. Hold on.

SPEAKER_04: 10:47

I just want to say part four of Jesse's birthday will be next Saturday on the 20th. I have something planned. It's a secret. Come on.

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

I'll tell you You're overdoing it. You're overdoing it. I only turned 44.

SPEAKER_05: 10:59

She's sat in the bar for her birthday next year. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_00: 11:02

I feel like I'm going to turn 49 19 times, though, at least. Oh. No, we're going to have a 50 Huda Maru. Will we be doing podcasts when we're 50, Lindsay? You think so?

SPEAKER_04: 11:12

I hope so.

SPEAKER_00: 11:13

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 11:15

Hopefully it's manifesting by that time. It's our full-time job.

SPEAKER_00: 11:18

Oh, we'll be working.

SPEAKER_04: 11:21

So.

SPEAKER_00: 11:21

We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_04: 11:23

What made you feel old this way?

SPEAKER_00: 11:26

Not a damn thing.

SPEAKER_04: 11:27

Really? Yeah. I see you wrote that in the notes.

SPEAKER_00: 11:29

I don't I don't feel old at all this whole damn week. No. A little tired, but not feeling old. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04: 11:35

I mean, like, Silas is tired and he's 12.

SPEAKER_00: 11:38

Yeah, I mean, I get up like at 4:30 in the morning and Lindsay's like, I want you to go to like 12 to midnight with me all the time.

SPEAKER_04: 11:46

You catch a nap before I get home.

SPEAKER_00: 11:48

No, I don't. Not lately.

SPEAKER_04: 11:50

Use a lie.

SPEAKER_00: 11:51

I've been playing video games with Silas.

SPEAKER_04: 11:53

Yeah, that's not my fault. That's not my problem. No, I've got map time.

SPEAKER_00: 11:57

I do go hard a lot of the times. When you put the timestamp in there, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 12:02

Oh, that should make you feel old that our 12-year-old has got you into Roblox.

SPEAKER_00: 12:07

I like Roblox.

SPEAKER_04: 12:09

They build roller coasters together.

SPEAKER_00: 12:11

I'm allowed to have fun. What about you, Ms. Lindsay? What made you feel?

SPEAKER_04: 12:16

So this week, you know, I really can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_00: 12:21

Oh, you're gonna bounce off of me. Fuck that. Dude, something cool. It's my birthday.

SPEAKER_04: 12:25

No, usually when you tell when you say yours, something will come to my head. It's usually completely.

SPEAKER_00: 12:31

We didn't really have any ailments or anything crazy. You broke your uh your vibration plate.

SPEAKER_04: 12:37

Yeah, my vibration plate did break. And I've only had it like six months.

SPEAKER_00: 12:42

But that don't make you feel old.

SPEAKER_04: 12:43

Fuck you, TikTok shop.

SPEAKER_00: 12:45

Maybe that's no, maybe that feels you feel old. Shopping for like garbage.

SPEAKER_05: 12:49

Fuck TikTok shop.

SPEAKER_00: 12:51

We love you, TikTok. Shut up.

SPEAKER_05: 12:53

We're kidding. We're kidding, TikTok. Totally is.

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

You're gonna cancel us at TikTok. Now it's JoJo's turn. What made JoJo feel old this week?

SPEAKER_05: 13:02

You know what? I actually have something. Silas turning 12. That made me feel old because like I was every year on his birthday, I reflect back on all the pictures because you know he's my forever selfie buddy. Yes. And y'all have some good ones. I'm like, I I cloud up every time you send me some. I'm like, yeah, every time they put memories, I'll always send them to Lindsay. But like I was going through all of our pictures this this week and I was like, oh my gosh, Salah has grown so fast. Like it seems like just yesterday he was that little emoji-faced baby. Literally. And now he's like practically grown. I know. And he got hit. He's as tall as me now. Yeah. And has his ears pierced and he's playing guitar. And I'm just like, what happened to the little baby that used to crawl around?

SPEAKER_04: 13:52

And his ears are pierced to gauge them. Like he wants to gauge them. So like he wants to be like us.

SPEAKER_00: 13:59

I love it.

SPEAKER_04: 14:00

He does.

SPEAKER_00: 14:00

But it's so cute to watch JoJo yoke him up and take pictures of him still. He's like, I'll care you, old nasty.

SPEAKER_05: 14:06

He's still always so down. It don't matter what kind of mood Silas is in. I'll be like, Silas, take a picture of me. Okay. Like he's always down for the start.

SPEAKER_00: 14:16

Jojo done brought the movie star out in him. I love it.

SPEAKER_04: 14:21

And he loves looking at old pictures of him, no matter what mood he's in, and videos and everything.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

I don't feel like he's self-centered, though.

SPEAKER_04: 14:29

I don't feel like like he loves that we have collected all those memories of him.

SPEAKER_00: 14:33

He does love attention, but absolutely not. But I don't feel like he's fully self-centered. I think it's pretty healthy.

SPEAKER_05: 14:41

I remember when you guys used to come to my house and bought a sense. I also put on full-blown concerts on my back porch and chase your doggos around everywhere. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 14:51

Good times. I remember that.

SPEAKER_04: 14:53

So today we have a little bit more revolution. But this case actually had some revolution already happen. But unfortunately, it took um some tragedy to make those moves. So today we're drinking about Sarah Haley Foxwell. And she was born May 18th, 1998, in Salisbury, Maryland. And she was the middle of five kids.

SPEAKER_00: 15:21

Big fam.

SPEAKER_04: 15:22

Big fam. Now she is described by her mother as funny, spicy, and had a beautiful singing voice, which is funny because that's that's what I call my our grandbaby jupe. I call she's spicy. It's a little spicy. Oh, yeah. She's a little spicy margarita. She is a spicy margarita, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 15:43

So she's in the middle, like just showing out, coming up, and and standing up for herself. You know, she's got her thing going on. Personality.

SPEAKER_04: 15:52

Right. When Sarah was around two, her mom, Jen, was pregnant with another little girl to be named Faith. And when she was around seven months along, she got in a minor car accident, just a little fender bender, but she didn't feel right. She actually says that she felt dead inside. So she went to the OB to get checked out. And she finds out that her baby in the womb is terminally ill and would have physical deformities, and nothing could be done about it. That's sad.

SPEAKER_00: 16:28

It is so sad.

SPEAKER_04: 16:30

Her options were either to terminate the pregnancy or carry it to full term. And she chose to carry it to full term and just hope for the best. Well, Faith was born December 7th and passed away December 9th. And this reminds me of um when I was pregnant with Landon, who is 20 years old now, um, a co-worker of mine at a little mom and pop's restaurant that I was working at then. She was also pregnant, and um she was due a couple of months before me, and she got into a very minor car accident, and she went to the doctor right away. They said everything was fine, and then I got a call from our friend that we were mutually friends with in the middle of the night saying that she was being admitted to the hospital and she was going to have to give birth to her baby who had passed away in the room. Oh my goodness. And as a person who was pregnant, and then watching her friend who had was oh my god, it was just I bet that was terrifying for you. It was terrifying for me and devastating for her.

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

Which is way more understandable from from a women's perspective.

SPEAKER_05: 17:54

Dudes are over here just like, you know, that's horrible, but they were sitting here and you you have a child inside you, right? Somebody else is going through this. And I mean, I imagine you're thinking of the possibilities. This could be me.

SPEAKER_04: 18:07

And that's what I was gonna say, just about to say. So almost every week until I gave birth to Landon, if I didn't feel him move that day, I would go to the hospital. Because I was terrified. Right. I just watched a friend give birth to a baby that was not alive.

SPEAKER_00: 18:26

Has to be the most fearful thing in your life is a child, you know, having a child.

SPEAKER_04: 18:31

And then on top of all that, one of the times that I went to the hospital to make sure that my baby was still alive in my stomach because I was traumatized, there was a store, a true crime story on one of the shows back then. I want to say it was over, but I can't remember if that's 100% who it was. But there was a story of a woman whose husband of 20 years killed her children and then told her, you need to be with your kids, as he attempted to keep to murder her. Stabbed her 20 times and she survived it. She was on the show telling the story. I'm watching that while I'm in the hospital already fearing for my I was I deep-rooted true crime stuff for Lindsay.

SPEAKER_05: 19:22

Well, he survived it.

SPEAKER_04: 19:23

I survived all of it, and my mate is 20 years old.

SPEAKER_05: 19:26

And he's awesome. He's a good dude.

SPEAKER_04: 19:29

So that yeah, uh so I can just imagine what this woman went through, already knowing that it was a possibility of her baby being stillborn, and then she was alive for two days and passed away, you know, after being two days old.

SPEAKER_00: 19:51

Rough on her and the whole family.

SPEAKER_04: 19:53

So Jen had already made the funeral arrangements while pregnant, but she still hoped for a different outcome, of course. But she had prepared for the worst. So, you know, this devastation for any mother, and as she said, you should be decorating a nursery, not planning a funeral. Right. When you're at that point of your pregnancy. So unfortunately, everyone, especially Jen's parents, expected her to just get over it and move on quickly. And you you just you can't put a timestamp on grief.

SPEAKER_00: 20:31

And no one can understand that connection except for her.

SPEAKER_04: 20:34

No. I mean, there was a this girl that you know I was friends with that gave birth to a stillborn child. She wanted pictures of him, she wanted it documented, she wanted a book of it, and it was something that I didn't understand then, but I do now. That was for her. That was her baby. I mean, she she was almost full term. Right. She was almost full term with him. And I mean, huh. It's so rough.

SPEAKER_00: 21:05

Why, Lindsay, you got a small memory.

SPEAKER_05: 21:09

Okay. Yeah, it's starting out rough. Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_04: 21:13

Um, so I mean, Jen went from giving birth to her baby literally dying in her arms to burying her within a matter of a few days. And I I don't wish that on anybody. Anybody. Like, not even the person I hate most in the world. I don't wish that type of grief or trauma.

SPEAKER_05: 21:32

But it's like the worst thing in the world is to outlive your child.

SPEAKER_04: 21:35

Exactly. Now she was being treated for her mental health with Xanax and counseling. You know, but I mean that can only go so far. And when I when I got divorced and they wanted to treat me for um for trauma and battered wife syndrome with Xanax, I tried it. I didn't like it. So I chose not to stay medicated. So I can't I can't judge that for anybody. I can't judge anybody for that either, because sometimes those Nobody wants to be a zombie. Those type of drugs don't work for everybody either. Um, but her mother, like, she actually looked at her and said that she was better off that Faith had died because now she wouldn't have the burden of taking care of a disabled child. Her mother said that to her.

SPEAKER_00: 22:36

See, to me though, I would think you would have high hopes on no matter the situation of the child. You would let them be who they are, even if they have handicaps or disabilities. You're still gonna give them the best and have high hopes.

SPEAKER_04: 22:48

Yeah, you just you figure it out.

SPEAKER_00: 22:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 22:50

You figure it out as it goes along.

SPEAKER_00: 22:52

You know, it some things are really hard in life, and some people don't get a perfect hand that they get dealt, you know?

SPEAKER_04: 22:59

Let's say I I have a family member who see how old am I? She's two years younger than me. I'm 43, and she has a baby that's just a little over a year old, who was because of her age and the and the time in her life that she gave birth, she was born with Down syndrome. And that could have been scary to a lot of people, but my cousin took that on, and she's the cutest baby. Like she's she's beautiful and gorgeous, and like she's the youngest of four boys. She's the only girl in a four-boy family, and she is thriving. She's a thriving baby. She has, you know, they figured it out. They weren't expecting that in the beginning, but then when they learned that it was a possibility, they learned how to deal with and and take, or not deal with, I don't even want to say that. They knew how to navigate that type of life, and they're thriving now.

SPEAKER_03: 23:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 23:59

Because that is a risk when you have a child later in life, especially in your late 30s, early 40s.

SPEAKER_00: 24:06

There's no closer to understanding that there is God whenever you look at somebody and you see what God gave them to begin with, on any disability or any uh any inflictions that they might have upon them, and they're doing the best they can with life, and you see the personality and the light inside of them in every situation. And I've been around a lot of that myself. I can tell you many stories of all that. That light in their eyes, no matter what, when you see that and you get that that uh receptive reaction with them, and you're like, you know, this is a human, you know, this this person is a thriving human being, and you bounce back and forth off of that, and it's just a part of you know life and the hand that they've been dealt, also, as closest to God that I've ever felt, whenever you're you're you're uh communicating and you're doing things with somebody that has dis disabilities or anything in any situation, you know, even if they're just just regular people and they have something going on. I love getting and interacting with that because I see that light bouncing off of them and their strength and uh all the personality is just amazing to me. That's a really personal thing to me.

SPEAKER_04: 25:20

Well, then her mother, Jen's mother, and her now ex-husband, who was who was she was so married to at that time, they hogtied her in front of her children. What? Yeah, come on, and uh made her get a psyche vow because they felt like that she was just not dealing with grief how they thought she would she should deal with it, basically.

SPEAKER_00: 25:43

You don't control that.

SPEAKER_04: 25:44

You can't control that. And that's um one thing that she says a lot in the interview that I listened to with with with Sarah's mother, Jen. Um, you don't put a you don't put a timestamp on grief. You can't.

SPEAKER_01: 25:59

No.

SPEAKER_04: 26:00

Everybody deals with it differently and completely different. I mean, just it's it's a hundred percent different for each individual person. Well, the doctor said, hey, if you weren't grieving over your child, I would be concerned. But you are, so I'm not concerned. Um, there's nothing wrong with you. So, in my opinion, kudos to that guy because you don't get that a lot, especially in the late 90s, early 2000s when this happened. No, not at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_00: 26:30

But you gotta understand that everybody around you has to be a team player, and sometimes the positions switch on what you're doing for being part of her team and dealing with her grief and everything she's been through.

SPEAKER_04: 26:41

Well, unfortunately, uh somebody very, very close to me dealt with that same situation. Um, they lost somebody very close to them, and their significant other felt like there should have been a timestamp on her grief, and it resulted in a lot of issues. I mean, where Law was involved and everything, and you know the story.

SPEAKER_00: 27:03

Right. And um But it's a coping that you have to deal with. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 27:08

You don't know, like, I mean, I lost somebody very close to me, Jojo as well, not too long ago. And the wave, I mean, Jojo has been through a few losses in the last decade, 13 years that I've known her. But we lost somebody very close to both of us in the last five years. And the grief, it's hard to believe it's been that long since Amy's been gone. The grief of her hits me out of nowhere sometimes. Like, I have actually, we have come home from Gainesville before, and I said, Jesse, I need to go see Amy right now. Pull into the grave, and I just sit at her grave and I sob because I can't, it came out of nowhere. And there's and we come home from Gainesville all the time. We go to Gainesville all the time. But there are just times where when we pass that area, I have to go see her. And same with you, you've done the same. Yeah. Talking to Jojo here. And it comes in waves. You don't know when it's gonna hit you.

SPEAKER_05: 28:16

It never goes away. It's just grief is something you just learn to live with. Because it the guilt, the guilt, the grief, the the missing them, it none of it. It never goes away. You just learn to live without them. Right.

SPEAKER_04: 28:36

And losing the the loss of a child is has got to be like nobody at this table has experienced that. So we can't attest to that. We've lost people close to us, we've lost parents, we've lost grandparents. But losing a child has got to be one of the worst things that you can deal with.

SPEAKER_05: 29:00

Absolutely. I've all I don't have children myself, but I've always, I've always always always believed that outliving your child is the worst thing in the world. The worst thing has to be.

SPEAKER_00: 29:23

Which in true crime, we've actually discussed several many thousands of times that all these parents, you know, and survivors of of such tragic things, it's rough. It really is.

SPEAKER_05: 29:37

Yeah, I feel like women who truly embrace being a mother, like that's the worst thing that could possibly happen to you is losing a child. Like, motherhood isn't for everybody. That's why I say women who truly embrace being a mother. Because I just, like I said, I have no kids, but I could not imagine outliving my child. Like, your kids are like my kids, and like I couldn't imagine if something happened to you. You are the ultimate and Jojo. Like I if something happens to one of those boys, it'd be like, I lost my, I'm getting chill felt so my arms just think about it.

SPEAKER_04: 30:11

I was just about to say, if something ever happened to one of my boys, Jojo would be in the bed with me. Every day, yeah, just we'd have to get we don't we don't even know what we would do. We don't want to imagine that we would be a big puddle of the.

SPEAKER_00: 30:25

We'd have to get a special couch for Jojo in the bed. Yes. This is your spot. We're moving out of all the floor.

SPEAKER_05: 30:30

My little guest sleeper couch like we have in the hospitals. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 30:34

So, like full on, like the family is just distraught right now and broken.

SPEAKER_04: 30:38

But her mother was pissed, Jen's mother was pissed that they didn't keep her longer. Even though the doctor told her your grief is valid, I'm glad that you're grieving because if you weren't, I would then I would think something was wrong with you. Jen's mother was pissed that they didn't keep her longer. So Jen's already been through that tragedy, and she does have goes on to have issues with addiction off and on over the next few years, and then goes through divorce, but she gets her shit together and becomes a traveling nurse. Fast forward to December 22nd, 2009. Now, because Jen is a traveling nurse, uh, some of her kids were staying with her parents, and her daughters Emma, who was six, and Sarah, who was 11, were staying with her sister Amy. So Sarah Haley's next name nickname was Haley Bug. I mean, that's we we all know a Haley Bug. Oh, yeah, definitely. Absolutely. But now that Haley uh was in sixth grade, she really didn't want that baby nickname anymore. She was growing up, she was becoming more mature, and uh, she really wanted a pair of Chuck Taylors for Christmas.

SPEAKER_05: 31:58

Oh, Chuck Taylors four pairs. I love them. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 32:03

Unfortunately, our me and Jesse's white ass feet are very uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00: 32:08

They're so skinny. They are. Even vans are too skinny for me.

SPEAKER_04: 32:11

No, I got you a pair. Vans came out with wide width, and I got Jesse a pair of wide width vans, and he loves them.

unknown: 32:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 32:19

But Chucks, you can only wear for us wide feet people. We can only wear on occasions that we know that we're not gonna be.

SPEAKER_05: 32:25

They are tight fitting because I I do have a wide foot myself, and they are a little tight on my feet, but I still wear them because I love them.

SPEAKER_00: 32:32

We got a Neanderthal feet. I'm for real.

SPEAKER_04: 32:35

Fred Flintstone over here. For the Markham and me. We've got the Fred Flintstone feet.

SPEAKER_00: 32:42

Oh, flat feet.

SPEAKER_04: 32:44

On the 22nd, December 22nd, um, everyone's getting ready to go to bed, and Sarah and her little sister Emma, they shared a room at Emmy's house. Their room was right near the back door, and Amy, she made sure that everything was locked. Front door, back door, windows, everything was sealed tight and locked before she went to bed. Well, the next morning, grandpa is waking all the kids up, but he doesn't see Sarah. So now everyone is up and searching for Sarah. And it's 25 degrees outside. But Sarah's shoes and jacket are still in the house. The only thing that is missing is Sarah's green toothbrush. So Aunt Amy calls Jen and says, Hey, have you heard from Sarah? And she was like, No, I'm in Texas working. What's going on? So they search a little longer. Uh, and then Jen's like, please call the police, like right now.

SPEAKER_00: 33:51

So Sarah and her toothbrush is gone.

SPEAKER_04: 33:54

Sarah and her toothbrush is gone, but shoes and jacket are still at home in Maryland. 25 degree weather, December 20. We're on now, December 21st.

SPEAKER_05: 34:04

Yeah, and you would think she would grab the the jacket and everything that you're gonna do. Well, that's what they were saying.

SPEAKER_04: 34:10

Like, if even if she had left with a friend, she would have shoes and a jacket on. Yeah. Now the police, knowing these facts, they acted fast, which is great because you don't hear that in every true crime case.

SPEAKER_03: 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 34:27

So they acted fast and they searched the perimeter and then put out an amber alert. And Jen, she got on the first plane out of Texas to Baltimore and was home in about five hours. When she walked in the door, when Jen, Sarah's mother walked in the door, her father actually said, Who called her? Really? What? Yeah. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00: 34:54

Come on.

SPEAKER_04: 34:56

That's how shitty Jen's parents were.

SPEAKER_00: 34:58

Why is he even home? Why ain't he out looking?

SPEAKER_04: 35:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 35:02

To begin with.

SPEAKER_04: 35:02

Well, I don't know, because you know, I we went through a situation where a child of ours ran away a very long time ago and they told me to stay at home.

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

Or at least have somebody here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 35:16

To have somebody here. And I was the only adult. You were at work, you were on night shift at that time. Yes. And that was a very scary time. But at the same time, Aunt Amy was home. Why was it grandpa? Yeah. So you are correct.

SPEAKER_01: 35:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 35:31

So, and like I said, this is what Jen says in her interview. And I'm like, just like you, sir. What? Why, why would you say that's your that's her child?

SPEAKER_00: 35:44

Right. Clock in. Look at that.

SPEAKER_04: 35:47

Seriously. Her 11-year-old is missing. Our child, our youngest child just turned 12. And I don't know. I gotta shake it off. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_05: 35:57

I can't imagine if Silas was out there missing, but I I guarantee whoever took them would bring them back. I love Silas today. You are probably right.

SPEAKER_04: 36:10

Where are we going here? Where why am what where where are we going? Do you have a guitar? Do you play Roblox? Do you know who Tom Barello is? Do you know who fuck the uh Billy Joe Armstrong is? Yeah. Change the channel.

SPEAKER_00: 36:27

I don't like this music.

SPEAKER_04: 36:28

I don't like this shit. Because you know they're probably playing some fucking pop music, and so I'll be like, can we listen to audio slate?

SPEAKER_00: 36:35

Ozzie Osborne. Come on. But I don't want to take away from the serious in this case because shit is gone awry and nobody's teamed up when mom came home.

SPEAKER_04: 36:46

Now, Jen and Amy, they didn't get along. So, and and then she's also got this thing with her parents. So tension was in an all-time high. And um, Jen says in her interview, uh, I listened to an interview on her, it's a podcast called The Other Side of Goodbye. Definitely, listeners listen to that podcast. Yeah. Okay. So the search for Sarah ensues, and even though there wasn't any forced entry, and the family dog never barked through the whole night, the police immediately felt foul play because she didn't have on any shoes or jacket. Yeah, absolutely. And uh so they felt like she had been taken by someone who would have known her. Which, I mean, usually family.

SPEAKER_03: 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 37:42

That makes sense, considering all the facts. Exactly. Now, Amy knew she had locked the back door, which was right by Sarah and Emma, Emma's room. But when the police checked that door, it wasn't locked. It opened right up.

SPEAKER_05: 37:57

So who unlocked it?

SPEAKER_04: 37:59

Right. Now Amy tells them there was a spare key hidden under a garden decoration, and when they looked, the spare key was gone. Oh. So this was someone who knew where that key was, and then little Emma tells her grandma that she had a secret. Uh-oh. That a man had come into their room in the night, and she had that this man had woken Emma up, but she still pretended to be asleep. So obviously there was some instilled fear there. Because she was only six. Emma was six. And uh she said that this man had talked to Sarah, and then Sarah was gone, and this man's name was Mr. Tommy. Mr. Tommy's real name was Thomas Legs. Thomas Legs is a man who dated Aunt Amy. But it gets worse.

SPEAKER_00: 38:56

Whoa, this sounds like a horror movie.

SPEAKER_04: 38:58

Yeah, it really is. Yeah, the spildup is crazy. Thomas Legs was a repeat sex and registered sex offender in Maryland and Delaware who had already been punished for all of his crimes, but uh barely. Now he had gone to prison around three times, I think, and had been let out on good behavior each time.

SPEAKER_00: 39:27

Fuck you, Thomas Leggs, and you little groomy groomer.

SPEAKER_04: 39:31

One sentence, one of his sentences was for seven years, which he only served six months.

SPEAKER_05: 39:38

How do child predators get off so easily? I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:43

Yeah. That beats a drug dealer. That beats a thief any day.

SPEAKER_05: 39:48

They put a drug dealer in prison for life and give a child predator a couple years.

SPEAKER_04: 39:53

For marijuana.

SPEAKER_05: 39:54

Please make it make sense.

SPEAKER_04: 39:56

Which is net legal now. And there's still marijuana offenders. In prison, and marijuana is legal pretty much everywhere. We are so confused.

SPEAKER_00: 40:06

I'm so confused.

SPEAKER_04: 40:07

Yeah, me too. On the day that he attacked a minor child, this was just one of his offenses, his daughter was being born.

SPEAKER_05: 40:18

Come on, dude.

SPEAKER_04: 40:20

Get out of here. Yes, he he reproduced. Two of these offenses were on minor children, and one was on an adult woman who woke up to him naked and wanking over the top of her after he had crawled through her window. What a sick fuck. Sick fuck. When he took Sarah, he was out on bond for that offense.

SPEAKER_00: 40:49

I want y'all to go ahead and fucking have it out right now. Go.

SPEAKER_04: 40:54

Well, I'm gonna f yeah. Go ahead, Jojo, if you want to say anything.

SPEAKER_05: 40:57

That man needs to be buried under the gel. Like he he does not deserve his freedom. No.

SPEAKER_04: 41:04

Now, why did Aunt Amy date this sir bag? Well, in true narcissist fashion, he had made it seem like the charges against him were simply a mistake. Misunderstood. Of course. Of course. Now I have to share a story really quick about how this almost happened to me. When I was 21 and separated from my ex-husband on one of the many times that we split up before we split up before good, some friends of ours that had some people that had been friends with both of us reached out to me and said that they knew a single guy who really wanted to meet me. And I was 21, I was young, and I was stupid, I was sad, I was lonely, you know. So I agreed to meet this guy. And he did admit to me, like with we only talked for four days. I want to make that known. Four days. He admitted to me on the third day that he was a registered sex offender. He told me, and Jojo, you know about this, Jesse probably, you know about this uh uh club. So it's been many different things throughout our life, but at this time it was a club called Rumors. Yes. And he had been at this club called Rumors, where he met a young lady who was in the bar, assumed that she was of age, and they had relations, and she ended up being underage, and her parents, this is the story I was told. Her parents tried to bribe him later on, say, hey, if you don't pay us X amount of money, we are going to file you as a rapist. Right. Now, I don't know if that was true or not, but I really didn't find out. I took 24 hours to sleep on it, and I'm very proud of 21-year-old me.

SPEAKER_00: 43:18

You ran from legs wanker.

SPEAKER_04: 43:20

I did. I was like, Good, as I am, you know, you're kind of cool, we're vibing, whatever. I have two young children, and I don't need that type of drama in my life. And it was very copable, just clean split. But that doesn't work out for everybody, unfortunately. So Amy and Thomas had been broken up for a couple of weeks because he had actually threatened her and her children's lives. So Sarah's mom, Jen, she also knew him as well and knew about his charges and freaked out when Amy was dating him and had called her mother and let her know everything. So everybody in the family knew about Thomas Legs and his past and his charges and his registry, all of this. So now it's Christmas Day 2009, and everyone has been tirelessly searching for Sarah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:23

But Legs Wanker is a prom suspect.

SPEAKER_04: 44:26

Well, not at the point where they're searching, but okay, I'll get there. So the sheriff, Mike Lewis, he had asked people to tie a yellow ribbon around their mailbox after they had searched their property, and eventually, like the town was covered in yellow ribbons. Like the community really came together, and people from other states had given up their holiday to help find Sarah. This was a big deal. Then Jen gets a call from Sheriff Mike and said, please be at your sister's house in five minutes. So Jen gets to Amy's and there are officers and FBI all in the house. Yikes.

unknown: 45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 45:11

And they tell her that Sarah has been found and she is dismissed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:18

Knew it. Fuck. Lindsay. This is my birthday fucking weekend.

SPEAKER_04: 45:25

I'm so sorry. I told I did pre-warn you that these next two episodes were gonna be very somber.

SPEAKER_00: 45:31

But I didn't want to go to the plant on my birthday. All right, I'll go to the plant. Shit.

SPEAKER_04: 45:36

Now, Thomas legs, he had forced Sarah to perform a sex act on him and then tried to drown her in a mud puddle. And when that didn't work, he burned her alive.

SPEAKER_00: 45:51

Lindsay! No. See, we're not here for that. Or maybe we are, but still, I don't want to be here for that. Lindsey.

SPEAKER_04: 45:57

I'm biting the paper towel. I can't breathe. I know. Now, Jen, upon hearing this information, her first instinct was to attack her sister because she had brought this man into her kids' lives. Unfortunately, there were stipulations that uh she had to allow her kids to continue living in that home because she was a traveling nurse. I don't know what the stipulations were. Um, I listened to a couple of different interviews from Jen, but that's just that's just how it was. That was life.

SPEAKER_00: 46:32

Yeah, but that's a career-ending moment. I would not, it would be on pause. That's what I'm thinking. You know what I'm saying? You're not gonna leave. You're gonna restructure right now, right here, right now.

SPEAKER_04: 46:41

That was all she had. As a single mom of five kids of five kids at that time, I don't I don't know the stipulations. I'm just going off what Jen said. This is a lot of this is from Jen's point of view.

unknown: 46:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_04: 46:53

So uh Jen begs and pleads to see her daughter's body. But they said, you don't want to see her like this. So they allowed her to see and touch Sarah's foot to get some comfort and closure. Oh my gosh. So now Jen has to plan another funeral for another child in December. Because remember, little Faith.

SPEAKER_00: 47:21

It was the night, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04: 47:24

Awful. I know. Awful. I cried, listen, y'all. I cried oh so much this week just hearing these details and hearing Jen tell her side of the story. Just I was sobbing, and Silas was like, What's wrong with you? Because he doesn't know because I've gotten things in my ear. He doesn't know what I'm going through and what I'm hearing. And I'm like, I just I love you.

SPEAKER_00: 47:49

You know? So you have different things that you're trying to she was probably trying to be like, well, I'm gonna set y'all up and go focus back on this that way I can get my mind and heart off our that way. I can still feel like I have some kind of existence. And then dealing with it.

SPEAKER_04: 48:02

She's got shitty parents that think that she's the worst person in the world. She's got a sister who literally brought a sex offender into her children's lives.

SPEAKER_05: 48:12

And she's having to keep her kids there. And she's burying her second child.

SPEAKER_04: 48:16

I don't what this is my I want to make sure that everybody knows this. Is my opinion. I don't know if this is fact. But what I can just maybe tell from the details is maybe there was uh some kind of DCF agreement. Had to be. Had gone through addiction and things like that. Because she did say that there was a contract involved with her kids having to stay in this home. Right. So I don't want to judge Jen at all.

SPEAKER_00: 48:46

No, it was a big setup to begin with.

SPEAKER_04: 48:48

Like everything is just Well, being a single mom, you gotta do what you gotta do. Right. Sometimes and she didn't have a home herself. She was just working as this traveler's nurse to support her kids. She was actually working overtime to make sure her kids had a Christmas at this time where Sarah was taken and murdered.

SPEAKER_01: 49:09

Totally.

SPEAKER_04: 49:10

So Thomas Legs, of course, he denied it all. And he tried to come up with an alibi, said he was at some bar, but the alibi didn't check out. And they found Sarah's green toothbrush in his car.

SPEAKER_00: 49:27

Uh it's done.

SPEAKER_04: 49:28

The only thing that was missing.

SPEAKER_00: 49:29

You're fucking done, Legs Wing.

SPEAKER_04: 49:31

Lingo, right there. Yeah, you're done. Yeah, he's done. Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00: 49:35

Come on.

SPEAKER_04: 49:35

This is gonna be really rough.

SPEAKER_00: 49:37

Lindsay, no, no, no, no. Don't do me like this. You're gonna do us like this.

SPEAKER_04: 49:40

Uh, buckle up, buckle up.

SPEAKER_00: 49:43

Let me get my rattle cup.

SPEAKER_04: 49:45

The final thing to officially pin him to Sarah's kidnapping and murder was his semen in her stomach.

SPEAKER_00: 49:55

Lindsay. Nicole.

SPEAKER_04: 49:58

I was just sucking.

SPEAKER_00: 49:59

Michelle.

SPEAKER_04: 50:01

I tried to find a different way to do it. 11 years old? 11 years old. Yeah. So have we all breathed?

SPEAKER_00: 50:13

No.

SPEAKER_04: 50:13

I'm fighting bacteria.

SPEAKER_00: 50:15

We're fighting giants.

SPEAKER_04: 50:17

The death penalty was on the table for Thomas Legs. But unfortunately, that same year, the death penalty was abolished in Maryland right before his trial.

SPEAKER_03: 50:30

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_04: 50:31

But he was sentenced to two life sentences plus 50 years for the kidnapping in April of 2011 with no chance of parole. In the trial, they had actually tried to discredit little six-year-old Emma's statement by saying that she was a troublemaker. She was six.

SPEAKER_00: 50:55

Fuck you, Defense.

SPEAKER_04: 50:56

She was a child. Six.

SPEAKER_00: 50:59

If you're a defense attorney and you use some shit like that.

SPEAKER_04: 51:03

What a piece of shit. And they tried to say that Jen had drank while she was pregnant with Emma. What does that got to do with anything? Exactly. And that was not true. It wasn't even true.

SPEAKER_00: 51:15

Like that was just shitty defense.

SPEAKER_05: 51:19

Regardless if she did, what does that have to do with her child being being kidnapped and raped and murdered?

SPEAKER_04: 51:26

And Emma saying Thomas Legs was in my sister's room and took her.

SPEAKER_00: 51:31

That's why we all volunteer to just go sit at the fucking courthouse, do some fucking shit. Because we would be seriously, I will not be able to do that. You can I have thrown the fuck out over some shit like that.

SPEAKER_04: 51:42

You and I would be discredited from a jury, period, because we have a podcast. Which I'm glad. I don't want to be a I don't want to be on a jury.

SPEAKER_00: 51:49

To go be in the gallery.

SPEAKER_04: 51:50

I would be biased.

SPEAKER_00: 51:51

I'm just saying if we're sitting on a we're sitting in the back watching the shit go down, we're gonna uh uh especially when it comes to children.

SPEAKER_04: 51:58

Fuck yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 51:59

And a shitty defense to you, some shit like that. This this is a these are babies. Like what the fuck?

SPEAKER_04: 52:05

After their victim impact statements, after the family has said their piece, Thomas legs looked at Jen and her ex-husband and actually thanked them for sparing his life. Get out of here. Jen said they went the fuck off. I bet. Like they said, fuck you. Like As they should. Their gavel was down. Like, yeah, they that was right there in the courtroom. Like, and she said too, like, while they were giving their victim impact statements, that he didn't look at anybody except for her ex-husband. And then when he came back to the, you know, to the to the pews or whatever where they're sitting, that's when he chose to turn around and talk to them. Wow. And say, Thank you for spending my life.

SPEAKER_00: 52:54

Outta caught a charge.

SPEAKER_04: 52:55

Fuck you, you piece of shit.

SPEAKER_00: 52:57

Out of caught a charge.

SPEAKER_04: 52:59

Now, fuck. Jen says that she has since forgiven legs just to protect her own mental health. It's not for him, it's for her. This was something that took her over a decade to do as well. Like it wasn't right away by any means. Oh, I'm sure something like that. She, right, she said that she was just afraid that she was gonna drink herself into an oblivion. She navigated it through with her pastor, who she trusted. That was just for her.

SPEAKER_00: 53:31

Holding on to hate is not healthy.

SPEAKER_04: 53:33

Right. Now, Thomas, when he went to prison, was attacked immediately. Because, you know, even in prison, they don't like people who hurt children. No, they do not. Do not. And um he has been in protected custody, and no one knows where he is incarcerated at, and he is going by an alias, which pisses Jen off to the max because she wants, she wants to talk to him. She wants to talk to him, and she wants to know why you had to torture her. Yeah, because why does he deserve protection?

SPEAKER_05: 54:12

Like, who was protected?

SPEAKER_04: 54:14

That's what she says. This child. She says Thomas Legs has more rights than my child ever had. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 54:20

Yeah. Yeah, a free ride on top of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 54:24

And that's what she said. She's like, he's probably comfortable somewhere. Even if he is in a cell, he's still able to watch TV. And while my child is dead and he torture her. And she said he didn't have to do that. And she wants to talk to him and she wants to know why because she needs that closure. Because I would want that closure. Well, in this in this circumstance, hurt and tortured, like sexually assaulted, tried to drown, and then burned my child alive. I want to know why. And I want that person to fucking tell me.

SPEAKER_05: 54:54

As a mother, you definitely want them to answer for that.

SPEAKER_00: 54:57

And he's dead to rights. I mean, there's no denying it. So who would want him to have quality of life?

SPEAKER_05: 55:03

Like, I know you did it, so just tell me why. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Be a man.

SPEAKER_00: 55:08

Help me have closure with what you fucking created.

SPEAKER_04: 55:11

Now, like I said at the beginning, there is a little good that came out of this case. Unfortunately, tragedy had to happen. But there is now a law called Sarah's Law, which strengthened sentencing guidelines for people convicted of sex crimes involving children. And uh this improved Maryland's sex offender registry. Like you can't get out for good behavior and you have to stay there your entire sentence. Like, first offender is 15 years minimum, second offense is 30 years or more. And my question is, when is castration going to come into play?

SPEAKER_05: 55:50

I'm saying that's what I want to know. I don't understand why that's not a punishment for pedophiles because it absolutely should be.

SPEAKER_00: 55:58

I don't think castration is good enough. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, cut off their nuts, they don't give a shit about that. Cut them off.

SPEAKER_04: 56:04

Oh, is that what castration is?

SPEAKER_00: 56:06

Yeah. I don't think it's just the nuts. Yeah. It's not the whole package. No.

SPEAKER_04: 56:10

They don't become a unit.

SPEAKER_00: 56:11

No, no. No. I think, yeah, it should be the whole. It should be the whole. The whole everything. Yes. Now, if that was the thing, that's uh that's adequate if you do that. I accept that. But to leave the shaft, no.

unknown: 56:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 56:26

No, they don't need anything left.

SPEAKER_00: 56:28

Fuck you, legs wanker. You should have got your wanker unwankered. That's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_04: 56:33

Um, but like I said, I do encourage everyone. Um, so I got most of my information from just, you know, YouTube clips of interviews with mom Jin and um the podcast uh is called The Other Side of Goodbye, where she does do a full interview. I cried with her during this interview, and I just I don't want to imagine.

SPEAKER_00: 57:01

Well, Florida's pushing for the death penalty for sex offenders. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04: 57:07

Okay, and like I said, I there are I am very weird about the death penalty because of certain cases that we know of. I'm gonna talk about it until it's inseparable. The West Memphis 3. Yeah I am glad that that did not happen for Damian Eccles, but for sex offenders, dead to rise, red-handed, especially multiple, right, multiple offenders. I mean, like Thomas Legs just literally slipped through the cracks of the justice system. Absolutely. And this uh I heard another uh listen to another podcaster talk about this years ago, and they said this is probably this is just the reported and that that always stuck out with me. Real uh plug, real quick. If you are new here, what we do is we talk about true crime, where I unload a story on Jesse that I have that has been stuck in my head for a very long time, and I just want to talk about it. Now that you've heard so this is one of those cases that stuck with me that stick that that just it's always there's talking about Amy's law before.

SPEAKER_00: 58:25

I've heard Sarah's law, not Amy's law. Is there an Amy's law?

SPEAKER_05: 58:28

Yeah, probably I think so.

SPEAKER_00: 58:30

Maybe there's an Amy's law. So that's a lot of law. There will be. But I have heard about Sarah's law before. Yes, that one for sure. That that maybe it was Amy's law that's triggering the other one.

SPEAKER_04: 58:39

But there's I mean, for each state, there are different laws because children or or or even just, you know, or grown adults had to go through a tragedy for a law to be in place.

SPEAKER_05: 58:58

Okay, yeah, there is actually an Amy's law that really talks about the defendant's mental health and history of violence before setting bail for domestic violence offenses, aiming to increase safety for victims. So yeah, Jesse, you're right. There is an Amy's Law. Right. That's what it's about.

SPEAKER_00: 59:17

Yeah, and we even talked about you know Emily's law Emily's Law. Emily's Law, you know, with the uh turquoise alert. Oh, so justice there too. It's just everywhere, and that's only a small percentage, like like you just said, Lindsay, it's only a small percentage of what gets exposed. There is so many leg wankers out there.

SPEAKER_04: 59:37

And like I said, there's there has to be a tragedy to happen for these laws to be put into place. And that I I'm not okay with that. Like it's just so much.

SPEAKER_05: 59:48

I just like you have to, it's almost like lawmakers have to sit and think of these scenarios. And you would never if you if you don't have that mind frame, you don't think of shit like that happening to people. No.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:00

You don't get around just these conversations that brings awareness enough. Yes. And that's what that's what we're here to do. Right. So instill that, all the listeners around the world right now that are listening to us. Instill that upon your children where you you have in your hand 99% of everybody right here, proof of something that's going on that's shaped.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:20

He's holding up his phone.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:21

Yeah, you have it in your hand. The chip is in your hand again.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:24

It's in your hand.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:25

So it's there. Um fear is a big fucking thing, though. You know?

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:31

Well, Jen, uh uh Sarah Haley's mom, she pushed for this law, and I am so glad that she did. And that law is just in Maryland. We need to make that global.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:43

Right. If you're dead to rights, Sarah's law needs to be global. Should be global.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:48

I I agree. 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:50

And those boys that West Memphis 3 was not dead to rights. That was just all a fucking farce. You know, it was it was uh satanic panic in uh stereotyping at its best.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:04

Yeah, we're still over 30 years later fighting for judgment.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:07

No justice for those boys, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:10

Uh we do have a two-hearder on that. We all know the truth on that. Oh, yeah. Everybody knows truth, but yeah, those voices have been vindicated.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:17

So we're not talking about circumstantial evidence. We're talking about hard, dead-to-right evidence. Fucking cut the wank off, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:26

Cut it off.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:26

Cut it off. Cut it off. Yeah, yeah, I'm all about cutting it off. We're gonna cut it off. Is that it?

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:34

Lindsay, I mean all that tragedy being said, now we can we don't want we we want to keep talking about this forevermore. Because awareness. Um the more the moral of this story is be aware of who you have around your children, your nieces, your nephews, any member of your family. Because this guy knew where the Heidekee was. He had previous charges against him, and yes, he was broken up with the aunt, but he still knew everything, and he focused on Sarah, and he had been pretty much pardoned from all of his horrific crimes to that point. Guard your children. He felt like he was untouchable.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:29

No one's untouchable, you know? No one can get in your area, don't let them in your area everything like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:36

Unfortunately, like um, Jen, you know, you would think that Amy would take all of that to heart and feel a lot of guilt for that, for what happened to Sarah, but Jen said that she didn't even acknowledge it. Come on. And terrible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:01

No, no guilt over introducing this man to her family.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:06

Right, no breaking down into remorse. Nothing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:09

No remorse, no guilt.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:10

And she had children of her own?

unknown: 1:03:11

Shh.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:12

Unfortunately, the hyperfixated on Sarah. And there are many um you can watch on YouTube as I did. Um, I had a negative review on YouTube that kind of bothered me. I just want y'all to know that, first of all, number one, we do talk about this in our recap. But number one, we are just doing this as a hobby. Number two, I do watch everything I can. Everything that is available to me about these cases that we talk about. I take notes and then I transform those notes into a story to tell my husband or my friends who are on the pod. And yes, there's misinformation all over the place with any case, period. Um, but I do the best that I can when I am transferring this, and I always, always encourage our listeners, if you know more about any of these cases that we talk about, let me know. Yeah, let me know.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:21

As someone that's known Lindsay for many, many years, I can attest to the fact that when she does her research, she does her research, she dives deep and she becomes obsessed. Obsessed. So, you know, she gets all the facts that are presented to her.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:40

Well, it's a healthy thing to have a little negative, Nancy. Everyone's gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:43

Yeah, and I mean like thank you for thank you for listening. Negative comment and your engagement.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:49

Your thoughts and comments. That's all this is, is our thoughts and comments on stories and research that Lindsay finds. So that's just part of it. Is that the whole thing, though? That's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:57

That's the story.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:58

Well, fuck's sake, Lindsay. We've just done this. We we survived.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:05

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:06

We defied the tyrant. No, we didn't. There's so many times out here. Thank you for having JoJo.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:15

Yes, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. And like I said, if you take anything away from this case, please share. Not only for us, just share for awareness because there are people like that all over the place, unfortunately. Everywhere. And some of evil people slip through the cracks all the time. Be aware of who you have around your children and your family members.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:44

And we have all the access now. Do that background check. Yes. Arrest.org, people. Arrest.org.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:51

Do it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:52

Yes, girl, plug it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:53

So I can play music now.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:54

You can play music. What amazing band are you gonna plug for us this week?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:58

All right, I have an amazing palette cleansing jazz band to play for you, Lindsay. Yeah, Flair Soul. And this song is called There Is Always Something There to Remind Me. And I do believe it's a cool ass cover, so we're gonna rock this thing out. Love it. Lindsay, you're gonna love it. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:20

I walk along these city streets. You used to walk along with me. And every step I take recalls how much in love we used to pay. Oh, how can I forget you when there is always something there to remind me? Always something there to remind me. I was born to love you. And I will never be free. You'll always be a part of me. When shadows fall, I passed that small cafe where we would dance at night. And I can't help recalling how it felt to kiss and hold you tight. Oh, how can I forget you when there is always something there to remind me? Always something there to remind me. I was born to love you And I will never be free, you'll always be a part of me. If you should find you miss the sweet and tender love we used to share Just to go back to the places where we used to go And I'll be there, oh how can I forget you When there is always something there to remind me Always something there to remind me I was hoping to love you And I will never be free when there is And there is Always something there to remind me Always something there to remind me Always something there to remind me Always something there to remind me Oh my goodness Lindsay I think I think you went the wrong way on the emotion on this deal But the music was fabulous dude I loved it so much But the at the same time there is always something there to remind me Yeah oh well you know uh Fleur your voice is amazing that was a beautiful rendition of that song But at the same time Yeah so on the emotional side Definitely It really It was a little emotional wasn't it Yes so listeners this case was a little somber and so will the next one be um So just be prepared Having said that uh we hope that you like subscribe follow review and share all of our content if you have um any suggestions on a case that you want us to cover send us an email at drinkaboutsometh at gmail.com and our website is drinkaboutsomething.sight yeah we're on Instagram follow the socials you know like tags we're doing a few lives on um Jesse Standball and then drinkabout something pod underscore Lindsay on TikTok.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:23

Um yeah so follow us on those as well we love you so much thank you for continuing to listen yeah follow the bands too like there's absolutely following the bands I love her music she does a lot of covers and jazz music when they're like global so like they travel around doing all kinds of cool stuff yep I just followed her on Spotify and Instagram yeah and you should do the same because even though that song hits close to home for the content yeah you know and I didn't think about that which I don't I don't know I don't plan the bands so I don't know but yeah we're uh we're gonna ease on and have a great weekend so thank you so much Jojo for being part of this of course it was my pleasure thank you for having me yeah I just had to go sneak another bite of one of those freaking Brie pizzas man oh my god those are amazing those are definitely on the menu for get togethers if anybody wants to know it's non brie cheese cranberry walnuts hot honey bacon in the oven at 400 for 12 minutes yeah and drizzle it with sea salt yes and thank you Lindsay for puddling us and we will see you guys again next Friday for another very sad story another sad sad sad one and sad Christmas we love you so much and we're simply having a wonderful Christmas time most hated Christmas song ever. Yes love you so much yes we love you bye bye