Loose Start And Big Feelings

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, Jesse.

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Hello, Lindsay.

unknown 0:05

That was so weird. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

It wasn't weird. You know, just saying hey. Hey, everybody. What's going on? Hey, listeners. So uh I just want to say usually we don't start having a few until we record, but we've had a few today. And this is a case that gets to us both. And we've already kind of spoken about it earlier. So if we get emotional, if we get stupid, I apologize. But this is the case of kind of all cases for us.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

It is so huge. And we just got back from the river, and I am still geeking right now.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, we're geeking, but we're gonna go ahead and get that intro because we got a lot to talk about today. Lindsay. Hey, happy Friday! Happy Friday, but I'm not ready, Lindsay. I'm just not ready. I'm just not ready. Where's the music? Okay. There it is. Happy Friday, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

I had to crank it up a little bit. Here we go. I knew it was coming, Lindsay. It just took a little bit

Pride Shoutouts And Creator Plugs

SPEAKER_03 1:18

longer than every other time for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

But you know what? I think this is a good spot. But before we get into the case, we've got a lot of other things to talk about. So, number one, happy Pride Month, my LGBTQ community. Yes. And this week, so I talked about last week a couple of TikTokers that I follow that are part of the community. And uh this week I wanted to plug the goddess boys. They are two beautiful human beings who make the most amazing coffee drinks and smoothies. So go follow them right now.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

So I go to every Wednesday instead of Ileano's. I go there instead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

I'm gonna go get me something from the share. They always put the third straw in their cup and slide it to us, the audience. They're just they're just wonderful, wonderful people.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Do this.

unknown 2:20

I want to.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

And then the next TikTok handle I wanted to share is Mushy underscore cat. So Mushy underscore cat is a trans man who has really good stories. And their favorite little series that I like is about how men have no idea how the female body works.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

No, most of us don't. No, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So listen, as you can tell by my laugh, there they got some stories. So go follow their account and listen to the stories because the things that they share are absolutely insane. And men out there, please read some anatomy books. My God.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

What was the couple that you pointed out the other day that had been? The goddess boys. That was them. They've been married like 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yes. Ha! Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

They got it going on.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

They got it going on. Beaten the statistics.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

And weren't they just fucking beautiful?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Actually, they fucking kind of was fucking pretty fucking hot there, dude. They were like, yeah. I was like, uh gorgeous aesthetics. I'll watch them just walk down whatever that they need to walk down. You know, if they're just fixing to do like their whole cat walk-walk, I'm watching it, dude.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

And they make beautiful drinks. Um, their videos are mostly like ASMR, but uh Mushy Cat has got the stories and goddess boys has got the drinks.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Real quick, we had a real personal connection one time. We went to a drag show, and then we seen one of the performers that came out and gave, was it you some glasses? Who they give some glasses? It was after we went to UC in Gainesville, and one of them came out and they're like, Yes, bitch, you can have my glasses, and like gave something.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

It was not me, but it was somebody in our group.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

In our group. Who was it? Was it Dalton? It was Dalton's 21st birthday, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Well, it was my 40th birthday, but it was Dalton's late 21st. So we like took him.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Maybe, yeah. I think they gave him the Dalton, and he was all like, Fuck yeah, I don't give a fuck. It was so awesome. Like he loved all of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Oh, he had a great time.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

First time ever experiencing that, but he embraced it and I appreciated that. That was really cool. Yeah, that was fucking awesome time in the parking lot. Whatever. Lindsay, you have stories. I'm over here drinking an 8% story. I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

And we've been to the river and we got so much

LGBTQ Organizations Worth Supporting

SPEAKER_03 4:46

going on, dude. Oh, you want to do what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

The next thing I was gonna do was LGBTQ organizations that you can donate to that really help the community. So the first one is GLAD, which is G-L-A-A-D, and this is a nonprofit organization that focuses on LGBTQ advocacy and cultural change in the media. So they are basically trying to make sure that the LGBTQ community has gotten it, does not get scrutinized in the media. And their website is uh gladg-la d.org. And then the other one is the P flag. I'm I'm guessing that's how you say it. Yes. So it's P-F-L-A-G, and this is an organization that is constantly trying to create caring, just, and an affirming world for the LGBTQ people and those who love them.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Yes, and ladies and gentlemen, just let human beings be human beings.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Love is love.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Everything is it's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Everything is fine. Nobody's forcing you to fucking be anything. Just let people be people.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

That's it. Yes. As long as it is consensual and legal, everybody just needs to chill the fuck out.

SPEAKER_05 6:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

And this organization donates to those who are just in need of some support and or they are there for people that just need support in their coming out and things like that. And their website is pflag.org or www.pflag.org. And we're here to support all these amazing organizations that just want to make a more accepting and beautiful world for everything. I mean, just like I said, love is love. We love each other, and you can love who you want to love as long as it's consensual and legal. Period. 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Let it all roll. Let everybody be happy. Let everybody be them and they, and then everybody wants to be everybody, and just let them be all everybody.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

So now, Jesse, the question is what are you having to drink this afternoon? I know I fucking was ready to just all the way on. Oh, I wanted to get those out of the, because like I said, we have a lot to talk about today. So, ladies and gentlemen, this will be a long episode. Lock in and listen. It's a big one. It's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

It's an 8% cranberry something with some energy drinks. So I'm going to be super geeked up.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

It's a cranberry vista bay rush.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Rush.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

And it is the 8% version of the seltzers that I like to get from Aldi.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

And I'm like, living in the nightlife, the universal dream.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

For those who are stubbing.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Rush, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

And I am having a double watermelon vista bay with a watermelon Celsius in my cup.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

It looks like heaven over there in your fabulous Ursula. Ursula Cup. Yes. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

I'm allowed to say that real quick.

Juneteenth Recognition And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Upon the release of this episode, so Juneteenth is upon us. And we just want to recognize Juneteenth. And uh this is a celebration of the end of slavery in the United States, which was on June 19th, which has been renamed Juneteenth. Uh in 1865, this is when the Union troops arrived in Galveston, Texas to enforce the Emancipation Proclamation, which had been already in effect for two years, but they enforced that shit and made sure that it spread throughout the United States. Like it was supposed to initially when Lincoln came up with the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Right. The fucked up tragedies that actually brought an awareness for people. You know, Juneteenth should always be fully on disgust and brought into awareness.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Forever in American Houston.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

And it was really only recognized as a holiday, what, like three or four years ago? Maybe five?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Yeah, it's fucking way late. Christopher Columbus should have fucking dipped out fucking way late.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Long time ago. We both have our phones on charge, so we can't just specifically recognize what day Juneteenth was recognized as a national holiday. But we're going to talk about it right here.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

So thank you guys for the awareness and

What Made Us Feel Old

SPEAKER_03 9:20

letting us share the awareness of Juneteenth for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Now, Jesse, you know I have a question for you. What made you feel old this week?

SPEAKER_03 9:31

So we got the boys here today, right? Yeah. And they brought three full ass fifths of alcohol and they covered up my house.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Just walked a bit.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Yeah, so you can hear all the rattling and all the things. And my notes are over here, and I had a little thing about something, and I didn't forgot about it because I've done been to the river and it's been ringing already. But the code at the gas pump made me feel old.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Oh yeah, because I told you about the little secret way to get more sense. So fucking boomers. And you're like, what?

SPEAKER_03 10:04

And Lindsay's like, oh, you can also put this other code in. I'm like, fuck. So there's two codes now. And then honestly, half the time the shit doesn't work. And I'm like so pissed off. Like, why don't they just put the code on your card that way just links all together? You just do your card, it does everything. Because that would be too easy.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

And then everybody would get their sense off. The technology's gotta be there. Me? I'm dedicated. I'm not leaving that pump until I get my sense off. I will re-enter and re-enter and re-enter. I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. I'll do it one time.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

I I I can give them one time, Lindsay. And that's me stepping a little bit away from the old fucking boomerish and hate fucking because I'm just like, fuck these fucking numbers, these motherfucking didn't work. And then I do it once and then I'm done. Honestly. I would rather pay 10 cents more than get the fucking 10 cents off.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, not me.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Well, I just I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

So what what he's referring to is I let him know. So we already use one code to get five cents off. And then I was like, hey, if you enter in this other code, which he knows, but both of them are my phone number. So if you enter this one in after you enter this one in, you'll get, what is it, like eight cents off a gallon? And in these high-ass gas price times, we need that.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

I get it, but my I don't need the frustrations no more.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I'm so it's not frustrating to me.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

It's just my heart can't take it.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

It's satisfying because I'm getting eight cents off a gallon.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

I can't take it, dude.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna stroke the fuck out of the gas pump over trying to save 10 cents. Whatever. I'm gonna die. You're I'm gonna call you.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I'm gonna be like, I'll I'll walk you through it.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

I need an ambulance or a hearst.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I need an ambulance.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Ambulance. Bring me half and haif. Stop it right now. There is what made you feel old this week, Lindsay?

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Your turn. You're not even gonna elaborate on what you just said.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

No, I'm gonna leave it there.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Okay, well, I'm gonna elaborate. So I work at a restaurant. I work at a restaurant in a very redneck town. And one of my pet peeves is uh these old men that come in and order heif and hyfe tea. Like, what language is that? What is that?

SPEAKER_03 12:17

That's not English, but it feels more personal.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

That's not that's not even English English.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

It feels like they're giving you like their organic humor.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

There's no I in half. There's no I there. It's just half and half tea.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

But it's half and half, Lindsay. It's half and half. It goes all the way back.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

And they're gonna catch my half and half fist one day because I'm gonna just fucking anyway. So what made me feel old this week is um I don't even know if you know this, but there is this movie that came out when I was a kid, and it came to my head the other night when I was at work, and I was like, Do any of you guys remember the movie FuzzBucket? Do you remember FuzzBucket?

SPEAKER_03 13:02

I don't remember Fuzz Bucket, Lindsay. No.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Okay, so this was a movie super cheesy, cheesy as fuck, very 80s. So this kid creates this creature called FuzzBucket by like blending a whole bunch of shit together in the blender. And Fuzzbucket was like always getting, he was a little mischievous and things like that. I don't remember the whole movie, but I just remember FuzzBucket himself. And for the longest time, I would have it mixed up with the South Park character Scuzzlebutt.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Oh yeah, with the leg and the fucking. So, like, okay, so Fuzzbucket was a fur ball, like the okay, I'm trying to remember it now. It's coming to me. So this is like um was it flirt? What was the Robin Williams movie where they had the the Flerby? The Flerby?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

I don't flubber.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Flubber. So is this like a parody of Flubber, but it was like a fuzzy?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

No, not at all. It was a fuzzy ball type thing, right? Yeah, there was no science as falls.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

It was just a kid throwing shit in a blender with a human life form out of some fucking shit.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Well, it wasn't human, it was just it was what it was.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

It was the life form of some yeah, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Uh nobody knows that shit. There's like not many people my age that know that shit.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

No, I'm I'm picturing it and I'm gonna need it.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

But you remember Scuzzlebutt.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

I remember Scuzzlebutt, but I remember this furry ball thing that this kid created in some kind of movie that I watched. So this is probably it, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

So yeah, it was very cheesy, very made-for-TV type Disney original thing from the 80s. So but yeah, I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

I may have seen it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

I watched it, I don't remember. Okay, honestly, I don't remember if I watched it in school or uh Girls Club was one of the two, but I it always like stuck in my head. And then I remember the South Park episode of this creature that had fucking Scuzzle butt. Patrick Duffy for it was a leg, right? Patrick Duffy was the leg, and then the ice cream cone was the arm. Uh, or or vice versa. I don't remember. I haven't watched that episode in a while either.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Scuzzle butt.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

That was right.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

I don't think I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Something like that. I don't know. But that was a long time ago as well. That was like first season South Park shit. And they're on what episode 47? Like, I don't know, or season 47.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Yeah, I think they're gonna surprise is the Simpsons gonna give up before South Park? Who's gonna give up first?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I don't know. We don't have our phones on us, so we can't even go.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

The Simpsons, though.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Like give us a comment. Has The Simpsons ended?

SPEAKER_03 15:42

That made me feel old.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Because I know that South Park hasn't.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

I don't think the Simpsons is ended either. Oh God.

Munchausen By Proxy Explained

SPEAKER_00 15:48

But anyway, guys, so uh if you listened to our pre-reel before our revisit to the Jenny Haynes case, you will know that out of my little bag of female cases, Jesse drew Gypsy Rose Blanchard's name. So before we get into that, I have like a prologue. That's the that's the pre-reel, right? That's the pre-reel to the story.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Most of this one, I'm gonna let Lindsay fly and I'm gonna look out the window and just let shit go on. You know, I really do.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I'm I feel like I'm wanted you to interact into my prologue here. So when I was in high school, I had read an article about a victim of Machauzen by proxy. Now, Machazen by proxy is a rare mental health condition and severe form of abuse where a caregiver fabricates, exaggerates, or induces illness in someone that they are looking after, typically a child, to gain attention or sympathy. Now, the victim I had read about in the article had been slowly poisoned over time by her mother with different medications that she didn't need, and the illness that she would get from them were unexplainable because I guess the medications weren't traceable or the right tests weren't administered for a very long time. So this girl was just always sick and having to go to the hospital and doctors, and her mother was addicted to the attention that she would receive from friends and family about how strong she was taking care of such a sick child until she was finally caught as the girl got older and started realizing what was happening to her, and she got help. But that doesn't always happen for all machilding by proxy victims. Sometimes they are controlled and gaslit enough to think that something really is wrong with them, or they don't survive. This article stuck with me forever as something that just really both horrified and fascinated me. Like I wanted to know more about it, and there have even been a few friends in my life who I have feared could have this condition because their kids were always sick and there would never be an answer as to why they were sick. Now, my second child was legit sick all the time, and I could ever understand why someone would like this type of life because going to the doctor or the hospital all the time is not or was not any fun at all for me. And seeing your baby sick all the time and having to administer breathing treatments and medicine on a strict schedule was not something that I wanted to be doing personally on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

It's debilitating and heartbreaking at the same time when it's real genuine and you're going and spending all that time to try to get your baby better.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. My child got better because I wasn't trying to keep them sick. My child got better. But the for the first two years of his life, that was our life. Doctors and hospitals over and over again until things just got better. But unfortunately, that doesn't always happen because some people have this rare mental condition. So one night in 2017, Jesse was laying on the floor, half in and out of sleep, and I was scrolling HBO, and a documentary called Mommy Dead and Dearest caught my attention because in the description it spoke of Machhausen by proxy. So I started watching, and then Jesse woke up, and not long into it, he was also very invested. So this case he actually knows about, but as always, he has forgotten most of the details.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

So there's a lot more that you're gonna dump on me, I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Oh my god, dude, this is gonna be a big one. So today we are drinking about Gypsy Rose Blanchard. And like I said, I just wanted I just want everybody to know that Jesse and I are very passionate about this case. And so we're gonna move forward. Jesse's gonna let me talk and do the things. But if I cry, I may squall. I don't know. We'll see what happens. But first I'm gonna have a sip and then we'll get started.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

I feel like you're gonna get me fired up a lot during this one, though. It's gonna be hard for me to shut the fuck up during this one. It's really gonna be. But I'm gonna like kind of look out the window and hug onto my plant because I know it's gonna be so much.

Dee Dee’s Early Lies And Control

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Gypsy was born July 27th, 1991, to Rod and Claudine Blanchard in Graceland, Louisiana. Claudine, who went by Deedee, was 24 years old and Rod was only 17. Deedee was working at the bowling alley and Rod was a trawler. Do you know what a trawler is? No. What's a trawler? Okay, a trawler is uh a professional, pretty much a professional fisherman, and that's where they drag the nets at the bottom of the ocean. Okay, yes, to get the shrimps and the crawfish, especially I mean Louisiana Staples.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

He'll put out and pull up the net. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

And by the way, not only did that documentary have me sat because of the subject, but the Cajun accents like Rod and Gypsy's later own stepmom, Christine. Full on boucher. Full on by you fucking buttery. I mean, just the Cajun accents had me sat.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

They know about them boo damn balls. They know about them boo damals.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Oh my god. So Rod was a trawler, and Dee Dee actually lied, of course, and said that she was 21 when they were dating, and she kind of got pregnant on purpose to get Rod to marry her. Like she rented, she she went and checked out a book from the library, and Rod's mother worked at the library. Like, and she, yeah. There's so much, there's so much.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

First step of control.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

First step. Now, Rod did in fact marry her because he was a Southern boy and he wanted to do the right thing. And he actually had to have written permission from his mother to do so because he was still a minor. Now, Dee Dee had already lived in a fantasy world before she would eventually create one as a mother of a sick child. She had been a groupie to several hair bands back in the 80s, and she would get pictures with certain rock stars and later would tell friends and family that these rock stars had actually sent her these pictures, and she would pretend to be in relationships with some of these rock stars. Hung out with Dev Lever. No, it was it was actually bands that were more local to the area. Okay. Yeah, she was she was a local groupie. Yeah. Now Dee Dee had been overweight most of her life and was constantly shamed for it. If you guys grew up in the 80s, 70s, 80s, 90s, y'all know. Y'all know. If you were like more than a size three, you were shamed for your weight.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

100%.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

100%. Now she lost somewhere between 200 pounds between her 11th and 12th grade year and was voted queen of the R O T C program that year. And she ran with that title and would later tell Gypsy that she was in the pageant circuit for quite some time after that. But she wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Y'all can't mess me.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

I was a queen of the ROTC. And she would actually later make Gypsy feel like if it hadn't been for the fact that she was a single mom, she could have really been somebody.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

She'd have been Miss America. Could could have been. Yeah. Miss Universe.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

So yes, Dee Dee ended up being a single mom because Rod didn't really love her to begin with. And with his career as a professional fisherman and trawler, he wasn't home a lot and was kind of seeing other women on the sign because he was a child himself. I don't want to give men any excuses to do a woman wrong, but at the same time, he was a baby. He was 17 years old.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

There was a lot of young shit. There's a lot of young shit.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Yeah. I mean, ugh, but still, ugh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Now he would forever, forever send child support and do everything that Didi would allow him to do. But Didi couldn't live off of child support alone. So she ended up moving in with her parents. And at some point, Dee Dee's mother passed away. And in the documentary, like I've I've watched and listened to several sources of research about this case. So in Mommy Dead and Dears, it said that she had tried to starve her mother. Like she was in this caregiver's position. So they trusted her. And she would just withhold food from her real mother.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

That's thick. Oh, it's gonna get even thicker. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

It's gonna get even thicker. So her mother passed away, and when her father remarried, it's alleged that Dee Dee was putting Roundup Weed Killer and her stepmother's food.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

That's twice as thick. Yeah. That's even fine as a thick.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

And that's in several sources, even out of Gypsy's mouth. Right. Wow. Now it is said, I have a whole sidebar of notes that I did not put in my scripts, but I need to mention. So it is said that Dee Dee was molested by her father. And Gypsy will go on to say that this same man molested her.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Wow.

unknown 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

And that's not So there's a lot of salad going on.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

That's not talked about in the documentary, the show, but that is Gypsy's words in her book that I'm gonna plug later on. Go ahead and put that in your in your back pocket. I don't I mean she was already she was already battling some trauma before she became a mom.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

So for this one, you have to have a big ass back pocket.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

You gotta have a lot of back pocket. So Dee Dee would end up working in a hospital as a nurse's aide and said that she had plans of becoming a nurse herself, but couldn't achieve that dream because of Gypsy and her later on supposed illnesses. Dee Dee would end up quitting the hospital and would focus on just Gypsy and her act. The act of being a caregiver to a sick child. And also committing theft and later teaching Gypsy to become an accessory. Now at this time, though, this is when Gypsy was little, she was stealing by writing bad checks and committing credit card fraud. Now it was said that she tried to literally take out credit cards and pretty much everybody she knew, everybody's name. And as Gypsy grows up, Didi will start hustling doctors and hospitals into her treating her child for illnesses that she did not have, and even convincing Gypsy that she couldn't walk and confining her to a wheelchair that she didn't need.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

So at what age is Gypsy right now in this era?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Okay, so I am gonna talk more about that. Everything started around three months old, and it just progressed and progressed and progressed.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Right. So at this time, Gypsy's not doing anything criminal, like you're like there's no No, no, no, no, not at all. But her mother is getting her to do under her name or anything like that. But there's but what I'm seeing is like a snowball effect of her using things and trying to come up with something for her to be like a caregiver and then also leaning toward using medical conditions toward getting attention.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Right. So Dee Dee would keep Gypsy's hair shaved so that she would always look sick like a cancer patient. She convinced Gypsy that she couldn't breathe without a CPAP machine and used one on her every single night. And Rod said that that started when Gypsy was just three months old. Now Rod had left Dee Dee. He didn't leave Gypsy, he left Dee Dee because it was a loveless relationship, and he basically just married her out of doing the right thing. But when Dee Dee told him, hey, our daughter's got some problems and she can't breathe without this machine. Rod actually came back.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Gypsy wouldn't know this for a very long time. But Didi was like kind of a non-lovable type human. That's why she left her last husband. Everything didn't work out. Rod was kind of scared of her. It didn't work out. They were like, this chick is not gonna work out with me, but I love this child. And they're trying to support Dad and Rob is like they're trying to invent Rob.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

With a D, not Rob. Rod with a D.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

I love Rod a lot. They're trying to like they're seeing from their side and being like, this is bullshit. I can't love Dee Dee, but I love this child.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

So Didi tells Rod that she first he tells her, or she tells him that she's got breathing problems. So and and Rod is already a professional fisherman that has to be away a lot. He's gone pretty much all the time. And he is seeing other women. I'm not condoning that. He doesn't even condone that himself. He just said I was young and stupid. Okay. But he does try to work things out with Dee Dee now that he knows he has a sick child and he ends up getting a house for them and everything to help care for his sick child. But Didi was still just too much. And he ends up leaving again. Now, somehow she would convince doctors to administer a feeding tube by telling them that she that Gypsy herself would have fear of eating or that she had issues swallowing. This was when she was just five years old. Now, by this time, she has already told Rod that Gypsy had some type of condition to where she wouldn't even live to see 18 years old. Now Gypsy would have pediatrics either administered through her feeding tube or she would drink it out of a bottle way beyond the point of her actually needing a bottle. And in fact, she even talks about still drinking a sippy cup until she was like in her 20s. And drinking out of these bottles and a lack of dental care at home would cause her teeth to start rotting. And eventually all of her teeth would be pulled out and she would have dentures. But she wouldn't have full dentures. She would have like silver caps. You saw it in the documentary, Jesse. I'm looking at you, I'm talking to you. Yeah, I'm just saying. I know you're over here because I know a lot of the I know you're over here playing to rob the plant, right? Robert plant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Yeah, I'm just not wanting to participate in a lot of this like bouncing back and forth and conversation. I'm letting you give all of this because it is so destroying to me.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

You and I have gone through this journey together, so I'm like, I need to. I need to.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

But Jesus fucking Christ, dude. It's so fucking hard to like start portraying this onto a child as far as their awareness as being a young human.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Baby. All started at baby age.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

You can't walk. You got cancer. You need to drink through this. Now Gypsy would be in a like fuck, dude. Why don't you let kids be kids and let them grow up and be natural? And I won't want to spill it yet because it's a lot to fucking spill right here, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

And I'm just being quiet, Lindsay. God. Well, now Gypsy would be in a car accident and a motorcycle accident, but neither one of those accidents actually resulted in anything lifelong. But that gave Dee Dee an out.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Yeah, any minor injury, she's gonna create something huge.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Yeah. You can lean on that, right? Mama. So Gypsy's world went end up becoming very small and only consisted basically of her mother and a few family members. Now Dee Dee made sure that no one would catch on to her ruse and would keep Gypsy as isolated as possible. Gypsy only went to public school for one year, as far as the resources that I found. Um, now I have seen in a couple of others that she went to all the way to second grade, but Gypsy herself said that she went to kindergarten and then Dee Dee pulled it, pulled her out to homeschooler, but no lessons were ever given.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Yeah, she's rolling this kid up like full-on Stephen Hawkins in the school. Pretty much. But there's nothing wrong with this kid. Right. Not to dump it earlier, Lindsay, but there's nothing wrong with Gypsy and rolling her up there like she is just broke the fuck down.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Well, everything that Gypsy would learn as far as like reading and thinking and like her vision to the world was through soap operas and movies, TV shows, and she learned to read by reading Harry Potter books, were our which are what? Fantasy, right? Complete fantasy. And Didi also had Gypsy convinced that she was four years younger than she actually was. And to keep this deception going, Didi would move them around a lot. And everything would be funded through government assistance. Everything.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

And I remember the uh government housing and everything.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Well, yeah, we're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

When all that would run out, she'd just hop into the next spot and be like, oh, I'm here and I have nothing and I need everything.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, like they stayed in the Ronald McDonald house for a very long time. I mean, that's not even allowed most of the time. Like most people that end up staying in the Ronald McDonald house is because their child is sick and in the hospital, and then the Ronald McDonald house is for the parent to stay in while the kid is recovering. But they were doing it because, like, they just I mean, yes, Dee Dee was she made the spotlight. The thing. Yeah. Yeah, she was pulling the ruse, but it it just it happened a lot. She stayed a lot longer than most people did.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Yeah, she was creating the whole stage, the spotlight, the crowd, and everybody, and just raking it all in for her attention.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Now, in 2005, when catastrophic Hurricane Katrina hit, Dee Dee and Gypsy

Katrina, Missouri, And The Illness List

SPEAKER_00 35:50

lost everything. But this would end up being a gain for Dee Dee. Now, Gypsy was actually 14 when this happened, but she thought that she was 10 and she was still very small and very childlike. So Dee Dee applied for Habitat for Humanity to build them a wheelchair accessible house and was approved for this house, and they moved to Springfield, Missouri. So they had to get out of Louisiana because now Dee Dee is saying this relative passed away, that relative passed away, we lost all of our medical records. We lost, we lost Gypsy's birth certificate.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

Like wasn't they doing like a little bit of an investigation before all that happened to you? Nope. Or is that later on?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

That's way later on.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

That's way later on. Um, jumping early, but fuck. Still, it's like it's the perfect fucking moment for her to have another come up. Like I said, this was a come-up.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Own child.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

This catastrophic, horrible. I mean, if you guys are not from America, because we know we have a lot of global listeners. Hurricane Katrina is like so Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Andrew are the two main hurricanes that have just like been catastrophic throughout Jesse and I's lifetime that I that we can remember. And then there was one where like before us that was just as bad, and I can't remember the name.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

It was a Hugo. Hugo. I was just about to say Hugo. So, like, like really to the uh southeast area and to the Gulf area of the United States, it was just catastrophic and it changed a lot of people's lives, yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

But yes, so Andrew, Katrina, those were the hurricanes of Jesse and I's lifetime because we were still young, very young adults during Katrina. Now, like I said, conveniently all medical records were lost or destroyed, according to Dee Dee. Now, at this point, Gypsy is told by her mother that she has, are you ready for the list? Lock in, listen. Oh God, here we go. That she has a chromosome disorder, asthma, absolutely. She's mentally handicapped, anemia, allergies, muscular dystrophy, paralyzed from the waist down, a heart murmur, hearing impairment, vision impairment, leukemia, and larynx problems. Also, the digestive issues, which cause her to have the feeding tube. That's a lot. Oh my gosh, stop it.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

How do you have that much?

SPEAKER_00 38:35

But there, I mean, there are legit people that have a lot like that.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

But not but Gypsy did not. The doctors were saying 99% of them were saying this is bullshit, and she kept pushing it.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

But the yeah, so most uh so later on, way later on, Gypsy will get her medical records, and it will all of them will say, Mother says child has this. Not the mother says child has that.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Yes, not the professional says, the mother says, and she pushes it all the way to the point to medication.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Didi kept her head shaved, her downstairs shaved, because you know she's getting older now, and that all kept her looking pre-pubescent and sick while she's being examined by these doctors. And Didi would bribe her with new dolls and toys to be compliant during doctors' visits, like telling her not to move her legs. Gypsy knew she could walk, but Didi told her, You better not fucking walk. And Didi told her, You better not even fucking walk at the house. You're not even allowed to walk around me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Now, to an outsider looking in, Dee Dee seemed like this amazing, strong mother taking care of this poor, sweet, very tiny, sickly child. And the government was footing the bill. And she was getting so much attention. We saw the videos. You and I watched the documentary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

And the whole time I'm feeling so sympathetic towards the mom and the child that has just put so much toward trying the betterment of their child and then all their illnesses. And I'm like, this is really fucking horrible. And I did not know until the end. They did it so well.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

No, well, you were asleep at the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

The beginning told the beginning tells. Ah!

SPEAKER_03 40:38

And then fuck I would have been a way different dude.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah, because I'm just like, I'm just letting Jesse watch it because I'm like, what is he talking about? So I just let him watch it.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

And I'm over here soaking in MBN sympathetic.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Yeah. God.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Now Didi even shaved her own head in support of Gypsy. Like she was like, I'm gonna shave my head for my baby girl.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

The biggest eye roll ever.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

The biggest eye roll. And when you see pictures of Gypsy throughout her childhood, they are heartbreaking. Like you see pictures of her with her messed up teeth, shaved head, tubes and shit coming out of her head, just always looking like a very sick child. And Didi would tell Gypsy and anyone that would ask her family history that Rod, Gypsy's father, was abusive. And some she would tell that they were hiding from him. Like they would say, Um, why are you spelling your name differently right now? She's like, Well, I'm trying to hide from my ex-husband because he's abusive and he's out to get us. Now, Rod had remarried and had two more children, and would talk to and see Gypsy as much as ZD would allow. Okay, so this is a side note that I forgot to put in the script. So she was in a wheelchair. Dee Dee signed her up for Special Olympics. She would tell Rod, Gypsy's Special Olympic schedule. Rod and Christine and the kids that they now have together, or not Christine, Chrissy, they would come to these Games, invited by Didi. And then when they would leave, Dee Dee would tell Gypsy, your dad was laughing at you the whole time. What? And calling you the R-word behind your back.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

What?

unknown 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Lindsay. She was inviting them and then using that against her to even bring her further down. Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Because she could not let Gypsy think that she ever had a way out.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Yeah, she she couldn't let him get her and then treat her like a regular ass child.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I was saying, and because of Didi, they would mostly be strangers, and Gypsy was actually terrified of Rod because Didi would tell her, would tell her that Rod was abusive and that he was abusing his new wife and children. So she already planted that scene. And Dee Dee also told Gypsy that Rod probably wouldn't have left if she had been a boy. And there was even a time that Didi had gotten a picture of Rod's son that he shared with Christine and said that that was her son that she had lost at birth.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

So Dee Dee said she got this picture of her ex husband and wife's child together and said that that was her child. She would show this picture of this kid to strangers. Well, not strangers, but you know, people that she was in her their small, very small circle, and said that. That was her child that she had lost at birth.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

This is insane. There's no amount of salad.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

I'm taking a drink. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

There's no amount of salad that you can build right here.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Now Dee Dee would eventually start giving Gypsy narcotics and Xanax. So she would be chill and numb and compliant at doctor's visits the older she got.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Yeah, this is about the time she's coming into teenage years, right? Yes. And so she's going through all those emotions that are gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Gypsy doesn't know that she's a teenager.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Physical changes and all these things that are happening right now where you're like, I am feeling full-on womanhood and changes in my life, and I feel like I should get up and run and be like a normal human that I am. There's nothing really wrong with me, and she's starting to discover this.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Well, and when she started her period, Dee Dee just told her basically, this is the only words that she gave to her. Well, you're gonna bleed most of the rest of your life, and would tell her to wear pull-ups. That's it. That was it. That's all the womanhood chat that she got about her monthly period.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Which is another come up for Didi because she can put her in diapers and just let her run with it. And I got her in diapers because she's so sick, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

She would even put or gel in Gypsy's mouth to make her drool so that an exploratory Lanac surgery could be done later on. So I have in my scripts about the period thing right here. And uh yeah, so that's it. Like that is the only talk that she got about. She had no idea why she was bleeding. She was just told by Didi, you're just gonna bleed.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

You're gonna bleed half your life.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

You're talking to a young teenager now, and you're talking to them like they're eight. Yeah. And keeping everything in the world.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Didi would tell everybody that she has the mental capacity of a seven-year-old.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

Yeah. I figured for forever. I figured I was close. And you so you're talking to them like they're young little children, or to her, like she's a young little child, and then it's just like keeping her completely oppressed, completely shut off from the rest of the world, and her age group, she has no grasp on humanity at her age level right now. And she knows she's already starting to know that now there's a whole different aspect of my humanity right now, and I can't even develop into it because of my mom.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Well, Gypsy will later say that her mother was treated for bipolar disorder. But this goes beyond that. So now they're living in Springfield in the Habitat for Humanity House, and they are local celebrities. Dee Dee even signs Gypsy up for the Make a Wish Foundation. Sorry, we're both looking at each other. And uh they get free Disney trips and all kinds of donations. They uh Gypsy gets a custom-made wheelchair, and then the hoarding and shoplifting starts. Now, Gypsy says they were basically just shoplifting a lot of things that never even got used. So she was just shoplifting to hoard.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Yeah, just to get away with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Now Dee Dee would assert control during interviews and TV experiences,

Isolation, Medical Fraud, And Grooming

SPEAKER_00 47:30

and even just talks with neighbors by always holding Gypsy's hand. And you can see this visibly. Look up every interview that Didi and Gypsy are in together. You can visibly see this. So she would hold Gypsy's hand. Hold my hand, Jesse. And when she would start to say the wrong things, she would squeeze it.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Don't you ever talk.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

You and you just look over and you already know.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Mm-hmm. And she's this, she's still, I mean, I'm not saying that she actually had the mind frame of a seven-year-old, but she's still very far behind because her world is very small. She's uneducated. She believes that she's sick and dying.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

What do they call that? The church pinch. Whenever your kids were doing wrong in the in the grocery store, your mother was by the arm. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she'd give you that little pinch behind your arm. You're like, fuck. And then I think that's what she was doing. That was a little her version of the channel.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Well, this was the Machhousen by proxy pinch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Yeah, that was the yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

But yeah, looking at her and just being like, you wait till you fucking get home if you say anything. Right. Yeah. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

On Gypsy's 18th birthday, which was in 2008, Rod called to wish Gypsy a happy 18th birthday. And Didi was like, yeah, don't tell her she's 18. She thinks she's 14. And Rod thought that that was odd. And I'm telling you right now, that man beats himself the fuck up for not doing more. But at the same time, it was like he was keeping his peace by not fighting her. Because Dee Dee was a force to be reckoned with when it came to anything.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Yeah, she manipulated him into the point where he was in fear too for the love of his own child and kept him away.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

I feel this really wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

And like I said, Rod thought that that was odd, but Didi had been telling him and everyone else that Gypsy had the mind of a seven-year-old and always would. And most people didn't think that she would still be alive at this point. She's now 18. So, as you know, Gypsy starts to get restless as she is a grown woman now, and she knows that she can actually walk, but she actually had no idea that her illnesses were a lie. None. Zero. And she finds her Medicaid card or Medicaid information that has her actual birthday on it. And Didi just tells her, Oh, that's just a typo. That's just a typo. Because she thinks her, she thinks she was born in 1995. That Medicaid information says 1991. And Gypsy's like, what the fuck? And Dee Dee's like, oh, that's just a typo girl. So sorry.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

Until she's done caught up with mama. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Now when she's around 19, she starts, she gets a she gets a computer. Now Didi, Didi tells her that this is a computer from one of the like make a wish foundation type organizations. Like one of those things. But it was actually Rod that sent it to her. Yeah. Of course, he didn't get any of the credit for that.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

I keep looking over at Lindsay. I'm being quiet as much as I can. I know. I'm looking over at Lindsay. I'm just like, you keep fucking destroying me right now.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Oh, it's not going to stop. So she gets a computer from her father, but she thinks it's from a government organization, basically. And she finds these sci-fi conventions that she's interested in called VisionCon. And they look like fun. And she she begs Didi to take her. Because she likes to dress up. She's done that a lot throughout her childhood. She liked to dress up as Disney princesses. And now she wants, she's older now. She doesn't know that she's older, but she's got these womanly things going on inside of her. And she's like, I want to be a part of this fantasy thing, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

She's wanting to feel beautiful. She's, you know, she's wanting to be a girl, you know?

SPEAKER_00 51:44

So Dee Dee actually takes her and she starts becoming friends with the VisionCon community, and she ends up meeting a guy named Dan. Now her and Dan Dan, I fuck, I kind of want to say fuck Dan. He gives her the first like uh confidentiality or not confidentiality, confidence boost, not confidentiality, confidence boost that she needs to start her little rebellion. But he's disgusting. He thinks that she's 15 years old and he's 35.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

Oh, yeah. So he came on a little bit crazy in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Oh. But then she starts the like they they start a relationship and she starts telling Dan that she actually can walk. And her mom makes her pretend that she can't walk, and she thinks she's actually 19, not 15.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

You imagine having that conversation. No. To somebody that's like trying to flirt with you or whatever, and they're just like, Yeah, yeah, I look like I'm like completely broke down and I'm a little child, but I know that I'm a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Well, I mean, she's still she's still a very tiny woman.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

And she's you know what I mean, very immature because still to this day, yeah, kept her so oppressed.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Well, she was she was like four, she's 4'11 still to this day, but at that time she was malnourished. She's drinking pediatrif. That's her diet. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Yeah. Kept her looking like a cancer patient and then also shaving her head at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

So Dan tells her, hey, if you're if you're actually 19, run away. Come stay with me. And quick side note: all the narcotics and Xanax that Didi has been feeding her to be compliant, Gypsy is now addicted to. She is a full-on addict. Because that's what happens. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

She doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

When you're feeding people shit that they don't need, they become addicted to that.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

All she knows is if she steps away from it, it's going to completely destroy her. And then she feels like she's sick and she's second guessing, is my mom actually right?

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Is my mom actually right? Because I'm going through all this stuff for this.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

And I don't have the medicine. Oh, is my mom actually right? You know, fuck. Now Dee Dee, she takes Ambient and other medications to sleep, and she's a diabetic too. So she's she's on a lot of shit herself, like legitly. But when she goes to sleep, she's out, she's gone. So while Didi is sleeping one night in 2011, Gypsy makes her escape to Dan's house in Arkansas. Now, Gypsy hasn't really had a lot of time in the real world. Okay. So she thinks they are going to run away together, but Dan, he's actually a convicted felon living on parole.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Oh, that's your sad fucking face when you're

Escape Attempts And Escalating Punishment

SPEAKER_03 54:40

talking about him to begin with. I know this.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

He's living in a bachelor pad with fucking garbage and roaches and shit, and he can't even leave the state. With very quick investigation, DD finds Gypsy and makes her come home. Well, actually, what she does is she threatens Dan with calling the law on him and telling him, or you know, telling the law that he's a pedophile. And he is like, all right, get her out of here, you know.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

Right, using the fear and everything. Right. But like, okay, so the full-on breakthrough and awareness for gypsy has happened now. Even though this is a shitty situation. It started, it started.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

It hasn't really happened, but it started. It has started.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

The shitty situation she's trying to break away from, and she's like, I can walk, I can do this, and she actually is doing this. So there's awakening that just happened.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

So Dee Dee's picked her up, threatened the guy. Now she pulls over on the way home and beats the shit out of Gypsy's legs. And when they return home, she handcuffs Gypsy to the bed and keeps her on an actual fucking leash for two weeks and starves her. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

All of this is just complete way more than I knew.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

And I just don't want to say anything because I know things. I have texted Jesse so many times this week. I'm like, I'm fucking sobbing. I have texted my best friend. She's sobbing right now.

unknown 56:23

God.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Now, Gypsy would attempt another escape by shooting her mom with a BB gun. She was just trying to get out so hard. Now, Dee Dee had also convinced Gypsy that she had cast a spell on her and that she would never be happy and she would never be free. That's the words that she spoke over this supposed curse that she put in a mason jar and buried in the yard. So Morphia. She literally said those exact words over this mason jar.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

She's some Disney fucking evil princess shit going on right here. Evil queen.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

Gypsy will never be happy. She will never be free, is the exact word.

SPEAKER_03 57:07

You done ate the apple. I already know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Fuck. Now, after some time, Gypsy is able to get back online.

Nick Godejohn And A Dangerous Fantasy

SPEAKER_00 57:16

And through Christian Mingle dating website, she meets and starts a relationship with Nicholas Godajon. Nick was from Big Ben, Wisconsin, and he was on the spectrum and DID. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Really?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Mm-hmm. Now he had had other relationships with other women online as well as Gypsy. Gypsy did not know this at the time. Now he had gotten to some trouble at his local McDonald's by taking his computer there to use their Wi-Fi and watch porn for like nine hours.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

And then jumped on the Christian dating side.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

And touched himself in public.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

While he was on the Christian dating side. Yeah. Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Now Nick would introduce Gypsy to his alter ego named Victor, who was a several hundred-year-old vampire.

SPEAKER_03 58:13

On the Christian dating side. Why was it McDonald's?

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Well there was much more, there was more altars than that, but Victor was the problem. And I understand, but I don't understand. No, this one is iffy, Jesse. Okay. This is different than Ginny. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, Victor, he liked BDSM. And other than Dan, Gypsy had had no education as to what normal relationships were like. So she did go along with it. And she role-played along with him. And she would create altars to meet his altars. Now they talked about how they could possibly be together. Even planning to meet up, have sex, and if Gypsy got pregnant, Dee Dee would just have to accept Nick, right? Now then they came up with the plan to meet at the movie theater in 2015. And this is the plan that everybody knows about. So, Jesse, look at me.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

I'm sorry, I'm looking out the window and I'm thinking about McDonald's and the Christian dating site and all the vampires and all the altars and all the BDS. So I gotta tell you. There's a lot of take in, Lindsay, and I'm just over here looking at the window, and the plant's not even helping me. I need the window now. I need the window. Not the plant, but the window. And I'm just over here because it's just like a lot of fucking shit that you gotta take in and it's a whole lot of fucking shit, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

So I need you to look at me, so I gotta tell you about what happens at the movie theater.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

There you go. You want to stop on eyes are connected.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

So they make a plant to meet at the movie theater when the live action Cinderella came out. You remember that right? Oh yeah. Did you know though? Because I don't think we realized this back then, because I don't I don't think we watched Game of Thrones till a year later. Rob. Rob? Rob was Prince Charming. Rob Start.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

In that movie. Lindsay. Well, he's also he's been several characters in movies we've watched throughout the years. For fuck's sake, I mean, come on. I just realized it the other day while I'm like researching this case. I'm like, holy fuck. Okay, so the plan was Dee Dee and her mother are going to watch this movie together. They're regulars at the theater. Everybody knows them at the theater. So she tells Nick to just come in and act like he's just a dude showing up there. It didn't dawn on her that this is a kid's movie, kind of. And he's a single dude without any children that may be looked at like a weirdo. So of course, when he comes into the movie theater with Dee Dee and Gypsy, Dee Dee is like, this guy's a fucking creep. Why are you trying to talk to him? Because she's just like, Hi, how are you? You want to be friends? Because she already knows him. Already been talking to him. So she wouldn't let Gypsy go sit with him like she wanted to do. She's like, I just want to make a friend, Mom. So she gets Nicholas to meet her in the bathroom where they are supposed to consummate their relationship.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

But Gypsy is on her period.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

And what does her mom make her wear while she's on her period?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Full on depends.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Definitely. So they attempt to do the deed, but it really doesn't. She's still a virgin by the time she leaves, basically. And then her mom, like, is like, why the fuck did you take so long? Her mom, her mom, Dee Dee knew. Dnew what was going on. But she didn't like verbally say it. She locked Gypsy in the shed all night long.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

All night long.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:05

So now just a young adult at this time.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Mm-hmm. She is in her twenties now.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

Trying to be an adult.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

23 or 24. Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

And mom's trying to treat her like she's 12. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

She's 23. She's 23 at this point. Yeah. With this punishment that Didi gives her, and this Larynx surgery, exploratory surgery that's coming up. This surgery can possibly take away her voice forever. It can make her silent. And it scared the shit out of her.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

So now that's some Ursula type shit right there.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Gypsy is like, it's either me or my mom. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

No, she's like caring for her life and for her voice.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

And she's thinking that there's nothing wrong with me to begin with, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

Right. Right. Yeah, she's starting to put connect all the dots. Especially with the walking thing. Like I said, she won't learn till after all this other shit that I'm about to talk about happens that she actually has nothing wrong with her. So Gypsy wanted out. So she and Nick came up with a plan to take Dee Dee out. Now Nick tells his mother that Gypsy has been kicked out of her house and he is going to get her from a homeless shelter that she is staying at and bring her home with him. His mother was on board according to the situation that he was presenting to her. Now this is where it starts to get really dark. So Nick agrees to take Dee Dee out. Well, he says Victor's gonna do it. Victor, the vampire.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Oh, he's got him, yeah. Yeah. I got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

But he says that Victor wants to rape Didi. He tells this to Gypsy. Gypsy, who's never had any kind of she doesn't understand what's going on. So Gypsy says, no, you cannot do that. This has gone too far, and agrees to let him fulfill his rape fantasy with her. So Gypsy, she just wants to be free. Now they talked about arson, poison, shooting, and then agreed upon stabbing with a fillet knife. Now there are a lot more details to this that you can look up, but it's a lot to repeat on here. So we're gonna move a little forward. So on June 9th, 2015, Nick made the trip down, he stabbed Edie to death,

The Murder And The Run To Wisconsin

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

he fulfilled his rape fantasy with Gypsy, which was misconstrued in the court in the hearing because Gypsy had initially agreed to it. But when the act was actually happening, he was actually hurting her and choking her, and she begged him to stop. So that takes away the consent when a woman is begging for you to stop, that diminishes any consent prior to the act. Just want everybody to know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

Right. And she had no contrast on beginning to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

Zero, nothing. She had nothing to compare anything to. So, anyways, he fulfills his rate fantasy. They get money, like Gypsy had money lined up. It was like $4,500 she had in a bank bag, and they set off on their journey back to Wisconsin. Now they stopped at a hotel. It was supposed to be just for one day, but their bus got delayed. So they end up being in there for a few days. Now Gypsy had taken painkillers prior to the murder and after. Because she would like I said she has a full-on addiction now. That was because of her mother. Yeah, her de sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

Her dependency was on that for her walking around and just existing, because otherwise she would slump into something that was just she was needing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Needing. Yeah. It was a need at this point. Now they ate pizza and made videos that were, of course, used against her later on in court because she was acting happy and joking around. I mean, sorry, to be honest, she was now free of her capture, but she was also high as a fucking kite. Like she had taken a lot of substances to be numb from this thing that had just conspired.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

Yeah, she took a lot of not give a fuck. Yes. In the beginning of like during and in the beginning of all of this horrific thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

And I just want to say before I go any further, looking back, Gypsy herself feels that there may have been another way. Like telling the police or even telling Nick's mom what was actually happening to her. But Didi had paperwork saying that she was mentally incompetent. And Gypsy felt like no one would believe her. And someone had actually anonymously called DCF on Didi. They made one visit and nothing was ever done.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:26

No follow-up, no nothing. No, how more how much more believe can you get when you walk in and there's Hawkins over here all strapped up in a wheelchair and you're you're into a hoarder's house. And then you got a whole cabinet full of all the drugs and medication that the doctors gave you. So, hey, the doctors gave me this. And it's all justifiable and legal. I mean, really, I mean, it kind of is.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Now, one doctor, one doctor suspected Dee Dee of Michael byproxy and even put it in his notes. And nothing was ever done about that. Nothing was ever investigated. So at the time of the murder, in Gypsy's mind, this was the only way she was ever going to be free from her mother. This is it. And I encourage you guys, watch and listen to everything I'm gonna plug here in just a few minutes. Put yourself in this person's shoes because we'll get into it. We'll get into it. So let me finish the story. Yeah, there's a lot to get into. So Nick and Gypsy made it to Wisconsin, and Nick's mom picked them up. Of course, she had no idea. No idea what had just happened. So they get to Nick's house and he turned on his dominant persona and wanted Gypsy just to lay in his bed naked at all times. She says his room was disgusting. He was a hoarder, just like his mother. And when her high wore off, she realized he hadn't even showered in the previous days since the murder? The murder?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

Yes. So they've been in a hotel this whole time. He hadn't showered, and he didn't even shower when they got back to his house. And then she's like, you know what? What are we doing? Where what's the plan? Will my mom be found? And she even like had this fear that the cats were gonna eat her mom. Oh, they had cats. And she had this fear that the cats were gonna eat her mom. And it just it all started to kind of like come down on her. So she decided that she wanted her mom to be found, that she so she could be buried properly. So she logged in to her mother's, her and her mother's joint Facebook account. Now, when Nick had entered the house that night, he had told her, you know, he acted like he was in his Victor persona. He said to her, That bitch is dead. So Gypsy fed off of that and updated the Facebook post as that bitch is dead. Now friends and family saw the post and they thought the account had been hacked. Or maybe Gypsy was watching a movie or Didi was watching a movie and just kind of like talking about it. So Gypsy posted again, I slashed that fat pig and raped her sweet innocent daughter. Her scream was so fucking loud. LOL. Now Gypsy knows that there could have been another way. She is not, she she is remorseful for all of this, and we're gonna get into that just a little in a little bit. The police were called. I mean, the neighbors had already done some investigation because they were kind of close with their neighbors. It was the mother and daughter. And Dee Dee's body was found, and now it looked like Gypsy had been kidnapped.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:57

In a young mind that has been oppressed and has no other way of communication, she's just trying to get that out, and she doesn't even know how to communicate it. In contrast, Lindsay, what do you have that's tangible in your thought process of all the events that has just transpired and all the awareness that your human life has just came into and trying to move out away from oppression? What do you have when you've been held back for so long, so much, then you have pills and medication and all the stuff all tied into it. What do you have? What way can you go? Whatever way that happens. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

Exactly. Now Gypsy had a neighbor, like I said, the girl that was closest to her age, her name was Aaliyah, and she had known about Dan and Nick, but didn't know where Nick was

Arrest, Media Shock, And Family Fallout

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

from. But the police, they got the IP address from the posts and they tracked it to Nick's house. So the GoToJohn house was surrounded because everyone in Springfield thought that Gypsy was a disabled child in a wheelchair, not a 24-year-old woman who was just being abused. So Nick was assumed to be a kidnapper. Now, when they get surrounded, Gypsy looks at Nick and is like, what are we gonna do? What what what are we doing here? So Nick tells Gypsy to stick to the story that she had been kicked out and Nick came to get her. So when Gypsy is brought in for questioning and is told that her mother is dead, of course, she plays it off like she had no idea. And I mean, you can see it in the videos, it's all there. You know what I'm saying? It's it's it's not something that I can dance around. That the evidence is there. But she is told by this person that has been another dominant figure in her life, stick to the story. But in the other room, Nick, he tells the truth.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:14

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:15

So Gypsy's over here trying to stick to her guns, and I've seen the interviews and stuff, and she is actually trying to be true. She is trying to stay true to him. And he's just like, no, fuck that, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

That chick made me. We planned it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

So then eventually Gypsy does come clean as well, but there's a lot of holes in both stories. And Gypsy didn't really know how to tell the whole truth just yet. Because in her mind, she thinks she's got all these ailments. The only thing that she thinks that she's lying about is being able to walk. And that her mother has basically told her, you will never be happy, you will never be free. And no matter what you tell people, they're always gonna believe me because I have it in documentation that you're you got the mind of a seven-year-old kid. Okay. Now, as we all know, this is a widespread story throughout the media. And when friends, family, neighbors, and medical professionals saw Gypsy walking on the news, blew their fucking minds, didn't they?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:25

They were fucking shocked.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

I mean, that's probably not even a word the word for it. Like, just probably just like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. I mean, I can't even put into words in this script how many medical professionals that Dee Dee Blanchard had fucking fooled. I really can't.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:49

Yeah, this was this would have been an evangelist dream right here. It would have been the perfect one. Yeah, we would have felt like God himself had come back. I mean, honestly, quit it. We all believed it and put millions of dollars into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

Really? Now, Gypsy, Gypsy's Aunt Celeste, was her first phone call. And fortunately, Celeste gave Gypsy Rod, her dad's phone number, and Rod and his wife, Christy, have seen Gypsy through everything. And they are the dominant figures in the documentary, in the show, in her life. They have been there for her since day one through her arrest, till now. I mean, like, they're still there. Because Didi made sure they weren't. And now that they learned all of this, because even Rod's like, well, what did Didi do to make her want to kill her?

unknown 1:15:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:48

I mean, that was literally Rod's like, and in his own words, that was his initial reaction. Sorry. I'm I'm trying. I've cried so much over this shit, man. It would take some time before the or before all the Machow's and by proxy abuse came to light. But it did. And not one person in her family, not one in Didi's family, had anything good to say about her.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

Not one. Come on, man. And felt like she got what she deserved, and they flushed her ashes down the toilet.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

Just that. But bye. Yes. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

That even that even shocked me. I'm like, there wasn't one person, and there was not. It's crazy. Not one

Sentencing, Prison, And Learning The Truth

SPEAKER_00 1:16:40

person. They were just like, oh yeah, we're done. We're moving on. We're good. Pretty much. We're good. Now Gypsy would be sentenced to 10 years, but was released on parole December 28th, 2023, after her 85% was served. Now I want to say this really quick. With her case being very popular, she had to be very, very, very good. She had to take a lot of different classes. And I mean, and some of these she wanted to take herself to start on her healing journey. Because when she got to prison, it was better than the life she had lived. That's her own words. Prison was better than her life with Didi.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:26

So that 10 years that she spent incarcerated.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:29

Well, she did, she did eight years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:30

Okay. Well, that's where she became a real person.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:34

Not really, because we're we're gonna get there. We've still got a little bit to go. Okay. But that was still more free than she had ever been in her life.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:43

She gathered more in humanity and she was able to walk. A well human. That was just like I can do all the regular things that everybody else can do, and there's nothing actually wrong with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Well, she learned that I mean she was able to walk. She learned that nothing was wrong with her. She got the feeding tube removed. She was actually able to eat real food and not drink pediature. But what really fucking sucks is someone on the outside said, I hate that she's in there. I wish I could bust her out. This was years into her sentence, right? They put her in the hole over that. They put Gypsy in the hole over somebody on the outside that she didn't know at all saying that. And that could have messed up her fucking release date and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:33

Yeah, we're gonna get into more of how, you know, crazy her life has been since then. But so Nicholas, he was sentenced to life plus 25 years and really hasn't been public about anything at all. The only thing that I have learned about him is that he had that same BDSM DID story with people before Gypsy, with Gypsy, and after Gypsy. He's had relationships.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:04

Maybe that was just a criminal, genuine thing that he was into. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

I'm not sure. But that is the only thing that I know about him. Period. Like that's it. Like that is his persona. He likes to be dominant, and he believes that he's a several hundred-year-old vampire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:26

So I mean, I get it, but like I don't get it. It's not cool to use in livelihood. Don't portray it. Don't actually, you know, don't make this a real thing. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:36

Now, all I could see about his DID prognosis was that was what he said. I don't know if it is real. Don't know. I don't know if that is an actual diagnosis that he has or if that is just something that he says that he has.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:52

He was leaning on it toward being evil. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:56

So after the documentary Mommy Dead and Dears came out in 2017, Gypsy had been in prison for about a year and a half. She really didn't know how popular her case had got until she started receiving tons of letters, mostly in support of her. Now Gypsy is battling severe guilt about her mother and Nick. And she doesn't really know how to feel about this validation, the support. She starts corresponding regularly with a man named Ken Urker, and they develop a relationship. And after two years, they get engaged. And the plan was to keep it very, very quiet because Ken really didn't want to be in the public eye, like at all. But it leaked, and Ken was now in the spotlight that he didn't want to be in. And he was told by people in his life, if you love her, let her go. She's got a lot to navigate. So he did. But Gypsy was absolutely devastated. And she never, she never gets over Ken. Never. Unfortunately, she rebounds. And then the Hulu series about her case called The Act came out in 2019. And it gets even more, she gets

Release, Fame, Relationships, And Backlash

SPEAKER_00 1:21:20

even more popularity and more male. And another man reaches out her, reaches out to her named Ryan Anderson. And this was kind of on a dare. So Ryan was an educator of special needs children, and his coworker was watching Tiger King. Remember Tiger King days? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:41

The best part of quarantine.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:45

The best part of COVID, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:47

Tintin Quarantino. Yeah. The best part.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:51

Yes. We had so many cool adventures on the show. We really did.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

On back porch, life.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:58

Life.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:58

During quarantine.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

But anyway, so fucking Carol Baskins.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

Fuck bitch. So the coworker watched Tiger King. He watched Mommy Dead and Dearest. And they were like, if you write Gypsy, I'll write Joe Exotic. So Ryan writes Gypsy and they actually start a relationship after corresponding for a while. Now he eventually proposes, and they actually have a prison wedding ceremony. Now when she is released, she is instantly, for lack of a better term, a celebrity. Instantly. The lifetime show Life After Lockup starts filming immediately, like as soon as she walks out the prison gates.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

All eyes on me.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:47

And she goes to New York to be good on Good Morning America, the view, a few podcasts. I mean, within days of her release. She instantly has millions of followers on social media, like TikTok, Instagram, all the things. And she doesn't make the best posts or responses to comments because, hey, this is all really new to her. I want y'all to sit here and close your eyes.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:15

And imagine you went from like eight years old until you just got out of prison.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:20

Literally. I mean, just imagine. So you're you're a prisoner of your mom until you're 24 years old. Then you're an actual prisoner in a prison until you're 32. And then you're out into this world that has just. I mean, this is new to her. Like none of this shit she had before. Now she had some burner Medicaid phones.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:43

Yeah, and a little bit of the computer where she did the McDonald's shit. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. That wasn't her. That was Nick. Well, I'm just saying. He did the McDonald's shit. But they had a relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:53

They had a relationship online.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:54

A little clackety-clack. And then I got I'm enjoying the attention. I don't even know what to do with the attention because I don't even know what attention is.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

Right. Yeah. She's just finding people that will talk to her. Right. And correspond with her. So, you know, she got what she got.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

But anyway, so she's out, she's released, and she starts getting a ton of scrutiny for the messy. I mean, she was messy. I ain't even gonna fucking lie. I I I love you, Gypsy. If you listen to this, I love you. And I am, we Jesse and I are both in full support of every I mean not, I don't want to say we support you and your journey to becoming a regular person. Because it's gonna be a journey.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:43

We understand.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:47

So she gets messy and she knows that now. She knows that. And like I said, she's still like a little baby just navigating her way through life in her 30s. You know what I'm saying? So after things settle down after a couple of months, she realizes that she really misses Ken. Now, Ken has kept a relationship with her stepmom, who she's very close with, and she's honest with Ryan about it. She finally just goes to Ryan and is like, you know, I I don't think that this is gonna work out. So she files for divorce from Ryan. She reunites with Ken, and they are still together to this day, and they have a little girl named Aurora, and from what I can tell, what I can tell by following her, that that little girl is her everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

She has been advocating for prison reform and people stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

No, leave me alone, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:56

She is advocating for people going through a trauma and is teaching that her way was not the way out. And I just want to say that I have scoured the internet on all her socials and read the comments. And yes, some of them are absolutely hateful. And I mean hateful. She has even received death threats. But most say, and this is what I and Jesse, Jesse and I absolutely agree with. We're glad you got out.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:34

We don't like or support the way it happened, but we are happy you got out. Now she is about to launch a podcast where she will sit down with people of all calibers, not just celebrities, and just sit down and talk with them about their trauma and let them let it out. And literally, as I finished this script, I saw in my newsfeed that she was going to be on the We Need to Talk podcast, and I watched every single part of it on TikTok. I re-watched Mommy Dead and Dearest. I listened to her book, which is called My Time to Stand, written by Gypsy, Rose Blanchard, Melissa Moore, and Michelle, oh God, Michelle Machuscani. You know that, Lindsay. And I have watched a lot, almost all of the episodes of Life After Lockup, which is now on Hulu. And I just have been very emotional this week.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:36

We sympathize, we understand, and all the parts and aspects of all of this is because they didn't have any outside perspective enough to overcome the trauma that a mother can put on a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

Well, here's my thing Hindsight is 2020. That's how I feel about it. I mean, that's how I feel about it. Here's hindsight is 2020. And If you are not in that situation, of course you can be like, well, you could have done this and you could have done that and you could have done this and you could have done that. Obviously, she did not feel there was any other way.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:14

Why did the fucking pediatricians and everything just listen to the case? So I'm not tangibly really coming up with a true diagnosis and you're still medicating.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:26

Well, she was given all of her records. I think she said in 2024. I'm encouraging you guys, even the ones that are out here like on the fence about her case or hating on her case. Listen to her book, okay? That gives all the facts, everything, the nitty-gritty. She does not sugarcoat the bad parts. It's all there. It's all there. She was not given her medical records until almost a year after her release.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:54

And I remember the document where she kept coming up with different excuses because the doctors was like, Where's your medical records? Where's your stuff? Oh, lost them. We just moved. We just did this and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Exactly. Good memory.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:07

As a fucking doctor, you can turn that shit in. You're supposed to do it first. And only one.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:14

Only one of her.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:16

The hundreds could have fucking stepped up instead of pushing your fucking pills on children because the mother just says so.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:24

And surgery.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:25

This is where the awareness comes into play. Yeah. This is where the awareness comes into play. Could have stopped there. There's your fucking turning point when a mother comes in there and is pushing to the I mean, just fully, charismatically pushing something on a child that you're like, there's no fucking way that this child has this problem. I've tested all the things that I could test in medical history as human beings, and this is not connecting the dots, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

She was even listed on one of her medical records as a quadriplegic.

unknown 1:30:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:01

How do you not know? I mean, that's neck down. That's neck down. Yeah. And you could obviously see her moving. How do you not question that? Right. So yes, she's not moving her legs, so that's paraplegic, right? Yeah. That I can understand. But how the fuck are you gonna just accept quadriplegic?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

That's a whole different body.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:23

I feel like that this awareness has spread, and I feel like, as being a practitioner, you should really study upon this and not let this happen amongst children. I mean, because this could happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:36

Fuck. So, I mean, I really encourage you guys, like I said, if you're on the fence, listen to her audiobook or read it, My Time to Stand, and then watch or listen to the podcast We Need to Talk. That is her giving into the story. And you know, I even looked at the comments and people were even saying, like, her story changes all the time. No, the fuck it doesn't. Because I promise you, I have scoured every bit of information. It's all the same. She has not changed her story one time since she was arrested and got a lawyer. Yes, she lied in the beginning. Not gonna lie about that, not gonna try to sugarcoat that. But once that documentary in 2017, Mommy Dead and Dears came out, till right now, we're in 2026. It's almost 10 years later, none of that has changed.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:26

No, nothing. I believe so too. And sheer awareness, humanity, Lindsay, thank you so much. I just feel like people have to overcome eventually. But that many years I sympathize and I'm clouded up over this fucking destroyed me, Lindsay. God. Oh the doc was bad enough. The doc was bad enough. And this is just you're bringing it all back and you're dumping it on me. Thank you so much. Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:58

Hey, you drew the name out of the pack.

unknown 1:32:00

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

When you drew that, I really didn't think that. But you know what? It's all literally the timing is all perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:10

It's like, okay, I'm sitting here, y'all. All the listeners gloobily. And there's just this big weight of spikes. And I'm Indiana Jones, and I'm just got the fucking jewels, and I'm trying to run away, and I'm now trapped in something, and I'm looking up and hear click click click-click click-click click click-click-click. Here comes the spikes, and I can't get out. And Lizzie keeps lowering the fucking spikes on me the whole fucking podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:38

Well, this is this is my philosophy. And like I said, I mean, I don't want to contradict myself because movies is not reality. No. But when you sit and think about it, when you do watch a movie, or even certain true crime stories, where a victim takes down their captor. We just literally talked about this with Susan Kuhnhausen. When a victim takes down their captor or somebody that is after them, they are celebrated. Why is this any different? And I'm sorry, but there are people, this there is a person, or there's many, a few people that actually have an absolute hate channel about her. How? They have followed her, they have doxxed her address, they have done everything they could. There is even a person that wrote Nick in prison under her name to try to get her parole violated. What the fuck is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:44

If you don't think that she did enough time, that's your problem. But she still did 85% of what she was sentenced to by the courts.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:51

She shouldn't have gotten no time, actually. That's what I feel like, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:54

Exactly. But like you just escaped from a POW camp.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:59

I put on the W. Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:03

What I mean, how are you how do how do people that to me, you're more of a criminal doing some shit like that.

unknown 1:34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:11

To actually write a person to try to get another person's parole violated.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:17

Yeah, I feel like that should be a criminal thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:20

Take it up with the court. Don't try to get somebody's life ruined who's actually this person is actually trying to make their life better.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:26

Yeah, I feel like you're committing a crime if you're actually trying to put somebody in prison even more.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:31

Right. Yeah. After they have already served their time.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:33

Yeah. Well, either either way, you shouldn't be able to come from the outside and create something that causes somebody from the inside to stay longer. I feel like no matter if they're if they're right or wrong, you shouldn't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:47

And yesterday when I I messaged you and said that I have been watching the show and I've just been sobbing. Her dad. By the way, you guys, I love her fucking dad. He took her on a boat ride and then he taught her how to ride a bike.

unknown 1:35:04

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:05

Lindsay. Oh, this is more of cranking the spikes on me.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:13

She learned how to ride a bike at 32 years old.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:15

I'm not like, I'm not like, okay, we're I'm going back to what I just said. But this is a man who was also robbed. Couldn't be part of her life. He couldn't actually robbed. Drive her away from the POW camp.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:27

Kept her in Saigon and the fucking jungle and the fucking cage and just fucking stripped down to nothing and stuck in eight-year-olds.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:37

And I hope none of these people ever prove me wrong. But I genuinely that Rod and Christy. We'll die on this hill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:44

We're going to die on this hill.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:45

I genuinely believe that Rod and Christy are amazing people just from everything that I've watched about them. Because Rod doesn't even like the celebrity aspect of it. He's going along with it because he wants all of this to happen for his daughter who he was robbed of a relationship with.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:04

Okay, so no matter what though happened, it's still celebrity criminal. It's still celebrity true crime stuff. It became a global entity. Don't reach out and try to do something from behind the scenes and make somebody try to stay in longer. Right or wrong. Right or wrong. You go through the legal system. Go through the legal system. Do not portray something on some social media or an email or whatever. Go to the lawyers, the courts, the judges, and the shit. Do it legally. And if you're going to do something like that, let them do all their job. Right. And doctors do your fucking job so this doesn't even transpire into what we just talked about. Shit, Lindsay, I want to play some music. I want to get done with this.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:46

I have one more thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:47

You got more. I figured you would. God damn it, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:50

Well, I just I just want to say that this was the thing that broke my heart the most is she was speaking at a college in I don't want to say Santa Monica, but that could be wrong. Um so you'll just have to watch the series. But basically, she was speaking at a college on prison reform. She was a guest speaker, people were there, and everybody seemed like they were just really on her side, and people were taking pictures with her and videos with her, and then there were a few students who took all of that and turned it into fucking hate and scrutiny. And these were people that actually, while in this event, acted like they were in support. And this is my pro this is my thing with that. If you're gonna have things like that where a person is in the public eye or a public figure, maybe tell the audience to shut their phones off or things like that. That should have never been, I mean, because when you're doing that, you're just bringing somebody who's trying to heal, but you're just bringing them two or three steps back from their journey. Because this is still a person who went through a traumatic a lifetime of trauma that is still trying to heal. So we're all about healing and we're all about trauma dumping and getting it out and letting it out and being true to yourself these days. So let's support that because this person, according to the legal system, has done their time. Let them heal and grow as a better person.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:28

Period.

unknown 1:38:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:30

And now I'm gonna, I'm done. I'm done, Jesse.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:32

And don't use negative to fucking get your little group together and feel better about it. Everybody wants to clout.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:37

Everybody's clout chasing these days, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:38

It's so quick to rage bait. It's so quick. God. So, Lindsay, it is my turn,

Music Feature And Artist Support

SPEAKER_03 1:38:45

right? I can play some music.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:46

Yes, it is. I'm so sorry. Thank you guys if you are still with us. I appreciate you. This is this is a long one. We appreciate you hanging out. Uh, this is just one I'm very passionate about. No, for sure. We both are very much so. I get to play music now, yes. Yes, here is the music part. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:05

So I didn't get anything new, but she's got some new stuff out. Her name is Emerald Jade, and this song is called Suffocated Flowers, so check this stuff out.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:30

I hope you know how good I am without you. Yeah, I feel you call it, could't turn me cool. But I turn around and never look back and said, fuck you. Yeah, yeah. I don't want your energy to save the peaceful. I don't want you to show you, yeah. I guess this would be too, yeah. Cause I got rid of you, baby. I don't want anybody just feel myself that energy. I feel myself I stole the key and you can stop me coming to coming up your past is in my eyes, and those little eyelies. You come to me crying now you can't hide it. There's no sense in eye spinning can fight it just don't care if you like it. Can't believe I stay okay. What you like to spray with my love And how does your baby sound high we sight? Try to keep me hush, but I inquired Just crazy how for me you can't rely it. If you know me now, I'd say you back don't try it. I'm coming up regardless I'm surrounding By the energy of soundness Thursday found us here got me grounded. I'm coming up by this while I am not bounded.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:31

Lindsay, Lindsay, Lindsay. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:34

So that was a very it gave me like the old school, like a 90s RB slow jam about, you know, just kind of a a fuck you about love and shit like that. Love and life and shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:49

Yeah, I get it. It's really cool. Like it was a cool little jam, you know. I liked it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:54

Fuck yeah. Now I am trying, honestly, to find her at this very moment on Instagram. So you can follow her under Emerald Jade Official. It is J-A-Y-D-E on YouTube, and I'm currently trying to find her on Instagram. And I mean, she cute, cute little baby girl, man. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how old she is, but she looks younger than us for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:22

So I think she was in like the powwow community too one time. Yeah, so it was just like came to me through and some stuff, and I was just like wanting to share, you know, people that I've been associated with and all this stuff. So yeah, we're gonna support everybody and all their little uh accomplishments and their projects. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:41

Absolutely. Now, I'm not even gonna lie to you. So when I'm trying to find her, the Emerald J Greenball and the leader beat a bow to butt. Well, the dog thing? Keeps popping up, but uh uh Emerald, I'm going to find you. I promise you. I promise you. Oh my god, what was his name? Oh no, it was a her, but they called him a Was it a her?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:08

Yeah, they called him something. What was his yeah, it was it was a girl cat, but they called him like a Bob or it was like a something cat. Bob Weaver? Yeah, something like that? Something like that, and it was just like this cat looked ran over, and I was joking on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:20

Literally, it looked like it belonged in the pet cemetery.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:22

But I found out the cat had like cerebral palsy and all this stuff, and I was apologizing.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:26

I was like, I'm sorry for hacking on this, dude, because I felt so bad after this. But it literally looked like a kitty cat that had been ran over and that they used some voodoo magic and brought it back to life.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:36

Yeah, this cat was barely alive, still existing.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:40

Oh man, dude, this ties all the way back into all this, but some weird way. But this is crazy. But thank you, Emerald, for sharing your stuff. And thank you guys for following along. This has been a crazy adventure. I mean, oh God, it's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:55

Yes. I mean, so like I said, um on on on YouTube, like I said, I'm still trying to find because when it I I when I clicked the link, it was it was acting weird. So, anyways, so Emerald Jade Official on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:12

Yes.

Where To Follow Us And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 1:45:13

And the song is Suffocated Flowers. And you guys just go and support her. Like her voice is beautiful, she's super adorable.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:21

Help her get back to the studio to create some more stuff. She's got some new stuff coming out, so let's support her projects and make her get her ass back out into the world and maybe even be a performer because I think that she's kind of doing all this on the side and not even going out and actually doing shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:36

And we will share every links that we can find on our show notes and on Instagram. So by the way, if you're new to us, if you're a new listener, hey, we're Jesse and Lindsay.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:49

And we talk about true crime, we have some drinks. Jesse shares music at the end of the episode. And we're just out here having a good time. We're not big time, but we're having a good time.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:00

And also on YouTube, you can follow us at Gen Z. I'm changing this up a little bit, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:04

No, no, no, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:06

Yeah, you can follow us on YouTube as well at J-E-N-D-S-E-Y, and you can find us or Drunk About Something or Drink About Something.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:14

So Drunk About Something is our week recaps that we do periodically. Uh sometimes we've had some trouble in the last couple of months with some audio. So we usually try to put those out on Wednesday where we have the recap about the previous episode. And we will also be simultaneously doing that along with TikTok live, which is drinkabout something pod underscore Lindsay.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:38

Yes, and everything on drinkaboutsomething.sight will bring you to everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:44

Yes, Instagram, Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Music, anywhere you want to listen to us.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:52

There's so many avenues. Yeah, and share us.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:54

Oh, we got some merch you can purchase, and it's really good. Like I've been wearing it. I've been giving it away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:00

Jesse's been giving it away. Give it away. If you go back to some of the other podcasts that we have done, some of the other episodes, there's some contests and some little hints and things that you can hit me up personally, and I may send you some merch because there's some people that haven't actually got some of my jokes yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:18

And Jenny Haynes, who we have covered and revisited, she owns some of our merch. She is a surviv a true crime survivor, and we love her. We will never, ever, ever stop talking about her because her case is just very near and dear to hearts.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:33

And she supports us, Lindsay, and I know. She supports us, she shares us.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:39

And once again, Jenny, you're amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:41

I love her. She's so on fire right now. Go check all of her stuff out right now. It's on everything. Right? Dr. Jenny Haynes. Dr. Jenny. Jenny with an eye. Yes. We talk about her so much. We really do. I think our whole podcast history has really revolved around a lot of support.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:59

And you know, we've covered a lot of cases in Australia. Yeah. So and that's not on purpose. That's just people that I have added to the roster. And but Jenny's case has been a near and dear one to me like for years. And I had to get it out. We like I said, we have covered it, we've revisited it. And we may even recover and revisit this one later on down the road because this is one that we're very passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:26

And make sure you guys mark in your calendars about day for Daniel. It is Friday, October 30th. Another Australian case that we have covered. Because we need to bring that same awareness that they cover in Australia to America. Yeah. And to all other countries.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:46

Just like Juneteenth.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:47

Yes. All the awareness.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:49

Doctors, all the awareness on this one too. Everybody keep an eye out for weird things, you know, because there's so many and they all can turn into something like this.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:00

And I was gonna say for about this case that we just covered about gypsy, a lot of those doctors that were involved have reached out and apologized. But how do you really how do you apology can't undo the damage that's been done to your body for no reason?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:19

Right. The years of prolonged abuse and just she has a full-on scar from that feeding tube.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:26

That has people have made fun of Jesse. Why? Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:31

Why are you those people? Don't be those people.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:33

No. She had no choice in the matter. But anyway, so we will be back next week. And our case next week will be LGBTQ.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:46

All the awareness and all the stuff. We're gonna talk about all the stuff because it's Pride Month and all the pluses and all the days and thems and all the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:54

And I will find more organizations that you guys can donate to and support. And I will find more because I have quite a I I pretty much follow all LGBTQ uh centered handles on TikTok. They make my day.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:08

Yeah, you find your popular things. Guess what? Because you know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:11

They're all about positivity and they make me laugh or they bring me joy in some way. And that's all I gotta say about that. So, like I said, like, share, subscribe, and follow us. Follow the musicians that we are featuring on these episodes. We are this is now episode 87. We're getting up there, ladies. We're almost on season two. But we're gonna sign off here. We we've been at the river all day and we need a shower. I'm literally in my bathing suit and a bathroom, a bathrobe.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:44

She's so fucking hot right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:47

You're in your Bucky's bathing suit that I bought you that you did not want me to buy you, but I did it anyway, and I bought him another one. And by the way, I did this podcast topless.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:55

Yes. Hell yeah. Still drinking, still having fun, still doing our whole weekend thing. Thank you guys for joining us. We love you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:05

And we'll see you next week. Yes. Bye.